Steve Jobs has died

[b0redom]

Yes, I think it's time to stop all the non-PC comments.

RIP Steve.

[Hoonigan]

I can't believe the sort of response this has created. People have been going into Apple shops all over the world to leave notes, flowers and even apples with a bite taken out.

All of this for a guy that 99.9% of them didn't even know.

Just shows how much effect he had on the world, all from running one company.

[Saracen]

Stop bickering with each other please.

You have been warned by tiggerai already about this, knock it off or the next one to start an argument will get a weeks ban, dont care if you are a long standing member or not. Consider this fair warning.

This is a thread about the death of an individual who, regardless of whether you liked him or not and his practices did do some good in the computing industry. The man was a dreamer, he had some great ideas and put them to good use for the benefit of everyone. Also not forgetting if he hadnt bought Pixar in 1986 we probably wouldnt be seeing the likes of Toy Story now, it would be the cheap and cheerful computer animated stuff that gets churned out.

At least show a little respect, regardless of whether you like him or not. Got nothing good to say (or even reasonable) then just dont say it.

I'm with you there .... right until the last sentence.

What this really comes down to is whether a less than complimentary remark is tasteful in these circumstances, and/or within forum rules. Do we prevent people expressing an opinion that might be seen as disrespectful to the dead, just because they just died? In my view, that rather depends on what's being said.

Personally, I respect Jobs for the impact he had on technology, but that doesn't mean I either like or respect him as an individual. In fact, I don't know him (or care enough to learn) well enough to have an opinion of him personally, one way or the other.

It's also worth reading some comments carefully. For instance, Rave's ....

I know we're aparently supposed to shut up if we can't say anything nice- but I really think he was a nasty, anticompetitive guy and I'm not that sorry that he died.

. Break that down ....

- nasty and uncompetitive? That seems to track with what I know of his business practices.
- "not that sorry that he died".

That last bit does not necessarily mean or imply Rave's glad he died. It just says he's not sorry, which may just mean just he doesn't care, one way or the other.

Someone (Santa) mentioned the Amy Winehouse thread. I could have (and perhaps did) say much the same about Amy Winehouse. Am I glad she's dead? No. Did I wish her any ill will at all? No. Am I sorry? Well, I don't know her or her family at all, and I don't like her music, so I'm really not affected by it at all. I feel sympathy for those that did know or love her, for their loss, and for fans too, but personally, I feel nothing either way.

Yet, there was a huge expression of how wonderful her work was. Not to me, it wasn't. Most of it I found unpleasant.

And the same analogy could be made of Jobs, such as by Rave. The man had an impact on technology which a lot of people use, but he had (according to reports) some pretty unpleasant personal and business characteristics too.

Should we keep quiet in the face of what many may seem as over-eulogising platitudes? I thought people were allowed to express an opinion, even if we didn't like it?

Bickering and insult-slinging between forum members? No. That stops.

Expression of opinion? When I said what I said about Amy Winehouse, a fair few people no doubt didn't like it but nobody told me I couldn't say it. Isn't that how it should be?

[tiggerai]

I have no issues with people expressing opinions in a fair manner - we know that.
A lot of people have ways of expressing their opinions in an inflamatory way, all I'm ever asking is to take into account what you are saying, and how it may be construed by someone of a conflicting opinion.

I think that with Ferrals post we should stand by the "reasonable" - yes people do have differing opinions, but there is also a line of decency that we adhere to as Britons (mostly) and Hexites.

What I do have issues with is disrespect for people (and their families) who have died - and usually the tasteless jokes that come with it - there are other, less savoury outlets for that kind of thing.

At the end of the day, regardless of business, personal character and anything else reported in the media. This man was still a Father, Husband, Boss, Colleague and will be missed by those closest to him.

Insult slinging is always a no.

[santa claus]

There are many things reported about Steve Jobs, such is the burden of publicity. How much is true? I've no idea. Often it is best to regard reporting with a pinch of salt.

The known and reliable fact is that a man has died. Marking the occurrence with respect is my personal choice; it doesn't seem out of place on a technology forum. He was a contributor in our lifetime; like him or not, that should appeal to the purported interest of the membership here.

As for Amy Winehouse, stfu Saracen

[Ferral]

Yeah, everyone is entitled to an opinion

It is how that opinion is carried across, then starting on another member about their opinion is not on at all.

I dont like the guy particularly but I still respect him and his work in the industry. Its not hard saying something in that way so to avoid getting into a battle with another member over the way it has been phrased.

How many here would fly off the wall if something bad was said about a relative of theirs that had died (even an innocent comment that had been phrased badly). There is no need for derogatory comments about people living or dead

[pollaxe]

I have to admit I was never a particular fan or admirer of Steve Jobs but I am very sorry on a human level for his death and I also feel - rightly or wrongly - that the tech world will be a less interesting place without him.

Whatever else he may or may not have been, Steve Jobs was a character and they seem few and far between these days.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

All of the jokes about Steve Jobs' death are horrible, it's just too zune.

You were too Zune to write the Zune off!!

It still lives:

http://forums.hexus.net/general-cons...ne-undead.html

[Saracen]

There are many things reported about Steve Jobs, such is the burden of publicity. How much is true? I've no idea. Often it is best to regard reporting with a pinch of salt.

....

Agreed.

....

The known and reliable fact is that a man has died. Marking the occurrence with respect is my personal choice; it doesn't seem out of place on a technology forum. He was a contributor in our lifetime; like him or not, that should appeal to the purported interest of the membership here.

....

Agreed on the contribution. I've said so earlier. It also probably should be recognised on a forum like this, but that doesn't mean that people have to admire, for instance, the business practices that went along with it. Nor, for that matter, does the technological contribution necessarily excuse the alleged (and I'm bearing the first quote in mind) business practices.

It is perfectly possible to acknowledge the tech input while despising the business style.

The real question, to my mind, is to just what extent we should expect people to "respect" someone just because they've died. And that is largely a personal decision.

....

As for Amy Winehouse, stfu Saracen

I think I'll plead the 5th on that one.

Had that thread stuck to RIP-type messages, I'd have said nothing. It's when it started to go into how great an artist and how seminal her input was to music that I commented, with "not for me" and it went downhill from there. I'd guess the same is perhaps true of this thread - it's not the fact that he's died but that some comments are rather saccharine .... and arguably, one-sided or blinkered.

[Saracen]

Yeah, everyone is entitled to an opinion

It is how that opinion is carried across, then starting on another member about their opinion is not on at all.

I dont like the guy particularly but I still respect him and his work in the industry. Its not hard saying something in that way so to avoid getting into a battle with another member over the way it has been phrased.

How many here would fly off the wall if something bad was said about a relative of theirs that had died (even an innocent comment that had been phrased badly). There is no need for derogatory comments about people living or dead

Agree on most, but wrt the last line (again ) it's hard to determine where derogatory ends and factual and/or impartial assessment starts.

[DeludedGuy]

Now that is the part I strongly disagree with.

He is well documented as a bully, a snob and a truly atrocious parent.

As I said he had a tremendous influence on technology in the minds of the average joe, which I don't think any one person has come close too, but he was most definately not a great man.

Agreed, soon as he rejoined Apple he stopped every philanthropathy program Apple had going, disgrace of a human being, however I also can not deny he helped bring technology to the masses.

[Bunjiweb]

Lots of deluded and lots of educated posts in this here thread, difficult occasionally to sift through the crap. Sometimes people post stuff with their emotional hat on and put things across in a derogatory manner. Do you see me rising to the imbalanced individual who decided to label me a moron? No!...

I think there is a clear gulf between being respectful of someone's passing (which I am) and actually feeling like I should be mourning their death (which I don't with this particular individual).

There is a lot of dodgy stuff behind the cult of Jobs which is why personally I am not here to write philanthropic posts about how wonderful he is (which some people are doing based on very few facts or information about the bloke).

Many people, articles and other publications are hailing him as the genius "inventor" or "creator" of such devices as the original Apple computers, iPods, iPads and of course the iPhone. Jobs was the creator of NONE of these devices, and whilst he may have had a fairly strong hand guiding the creative and technical teams of later products he actually never designed one of Apple's products. Early Apple products were engineered by Steve Wozniak whilst later Apple products were designed by Johnathan Ive and his creative team. Even the design of the iPod was patented by a British man - Kane Kramer, who was kicked to the curb by apple until they were finally forced in to settling with him for a few million pounds - http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/19484...-ipod-inventor.

Personally I would only credit Jobs as a good frontman for Apple and an interesting marketing spin-doctor for them. Much more than that is a complete disregard for the many other far more talented people that worked around him.

In a break from current form by the BBC, the author of this article managed to get the balance pretty spot on:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15194365

When it came to business, Mr Jobs was anything but a revolutionary. "It seems like a cool, liberal, creative company, but the reality is it's a very locked-down place. It's not a happy place to work," says Mr Kahney.

"It's one of the tightest-controlled corporations in the world."

The mystery surrounding Jobs was always just a few notes away from menace. As the company became more successful and less outwardly innovative - after all, how many times can one company be expected to create the next big thing that revolutionises our lives? - the chance that Jobs might prove himself to be fallible increased.

and

When his legion of fans went online to mark his passing, they were saying, "I want to believe." They were letting the world know that they too, are capable of thinking differently.

Even if they themselves sometimes forgot, Steve Jobs never did.

just MY thoughts...

Ben

[0iD]

Yeah, everyone is entitled to an opinion

Even the knobbers of the infamous Wesboro Baptist Church http://www.webpronews.com/westboro-b...e-jobs-2011-10

But to be honest, the kid's sign cracked me up bigtime

[TooNice]

RIP.
(It was a bit strange finding about this when I was visiting a fairly remote place in Angola).

[jwebber]

RIP Steve. Didn't like Stallman's article on it earlier....

[scaryjim]

Even the knobbers of the infamous Wesboro Baptist Church http://www.webpronews.com/westboro-b...e-jobs-2011-10

OK, scary thing about the protest picture in that article? The protester looks surprisingly like a gay transvestite friend of mine

I must ask him if he's secretly a WBC member...