When a joke goes too far

[peterb]

What responsibility. Have you listened to the thing? Or read the transcript. There wasn't anything really 'juciy' gleamed, the palace made no complaints, the only people who looked stupid here where the hospital, not the royals.

Also, its now been disclosed it was in fact the first nurse who fwd'd the call. I seriously doubt the call can be considered responsible for a mother of two killing herself...

I'm not absolving them of any responsibility, they still miss represented themselves, but they didn't call in with the express idea of getting such information, I think it was more just a joke about royal sterotypes.

Of course, her suicide might be completely unrelated to the call, not all the facts have been released, but do you think that (on the balance of probabilities, and in the absence of any other information) she would have still killed herself if they hadn't made the call?

[Willzzz]

There is no way anyone could have predicted this outcome.

You can trace back events from any suicide that say certain actions had an impact, but that is not necessarily to say those people are to blame.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I agree with you both. The presenters are morons (2Day FM is owned by Fox - enough said) as can be found out with a quick trawl through the web. However, what sort of pressure must the nurse have been under to commit suicide? Anyone want to bet that there would be the typical HR investigation, disciplinary procedures, etc, etc?

It could be quite possible she might have thought she would be fired,especially consider who was involved. With the job situation in this country too,it is not easy to find work either,especially if you have been fired,and it would mean her career would be affected. People don't seem to get how much it can affect people.

However,this is the same radio station which though it was cool to ask a 14 year old girl about her sexual history,when connected to a lie dectector,and she felt so much under pressure,she admitted she had been raped.

[badass]

Of course, her suicide might be completely unrelated to the call, not all the facts have been released, but do you think that (on the balance of probabilities, and in the absence of any other information) she would have still killed herself if they hadn't made the call?

it's extremely hard to say. You could argue that actually, yes she would have - just later as it is extremely unlikely that this call alone that was the sole cause of her suicide.
Nevertheless, an extremely sad set of circumstances and I hope the people involved in this prank learn something meaningful from this.

[j1979]

How?

I can't believe people (not just on here) are seriously suggesting they're at fault in any criminal sense.

they have impersonated a person to break DPA. the crime is fraud.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

[Terbinator]

they have impersonated a person to break DPA. the crime is fraud.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

And the second line is more applicable in this case.

[santa claus]

What about the ceaseless assault on public servants over their pay, pensions, performance, funding, culpability, and in the case of nurses, their so-called 'indifference' toward their patients. There's only so much a person can take and maybe this hoax was the straw that broke the camel's back.

It must be soul-destroying to be ripped off, criticised and accused by your Government, the press and your patients especially in a vocational profession.

Perhaps there's a wider irresponsibility here such as those who feel soft targets are fair game.

[SilentRoss]

I think if they did get any sort of criminal charge for this it would be identity fraud. Maybe the Queen herself will send them to the tower for a good ol' fashioned hanging.

However I do also believe a lot of conspiracy theories will emerge. What of? I couldn't say, but someone, somewhere will think of something

[Biscuit]

She wasn't disciplined by the hospital, she wasn't named and shamed in the press beforehand, the palace didn't take any action, therefore she was under no pressure other than any she put herself under. I think its pretty clear she was unstable and if it wasn't this that tipped her over the edge, it would have probably been something else.

Its a very sad state of affairs and the behavior of the presenters was pretty stupid and irresponsible but i don't think the suicide and prank call should be so closely linked.

[j1979]

Now is not the time for talking! we should be planning the invasion force... any Aussies currently in the UK should be rounded up and taken to the tower or forced labor camps.

Anyone caught eating lamingtons or drinking Coopers pale, should be charged and sentenced without trial.

The ashes should be burnt in protest!!!

[TheAnimus]

Of course, her suicide might be completely unrelated to the call, not all the facts have been released, but do you think that (on the balance of probabilities, and in the absence of any other information) she would have still killed herself if they hadn't made the call?

So, if hypothetically, someone is standing on the left of the escalator in the tube, and I say, "excuse me, you stand on the right, not the left, as the sign clearly states" in a terse manner, because I'm a busy stressed out city type who has no time to understand the person breaking the rules.

If she then kills herself, I have no responsibility for that death do I?

(Except if I would have pushed her on the tracks hypothetically, you don't stand on the left b)

[csgohan4]

She wasn't disciplined by the hospital, she wasn't named and shamed in the press beforehand, the palace didn't take any action, therefore she was under no pressure other than any she put herself under. I think its pretty clear she was unstable and if it wasn't this that tipped her over the edge, it would have probably been something else.

Its a very sad state of affairs and the behavior of the presenters was pretty stupid and irresponsible but i don't think the suicide and prank call should be so closely linked.

I beg to differ, an Incident form will likely have been raised, her line managers told and suspended from her job with a likely 'fittness to practice' hearing from the general nursing council for breech of confidentiality, although she didn't mention her clinical details, the fact she put someone through gives information she is there. Further made worse by the forwarded nurse releasing details.


A root cause analysis will be ratified and she will be the main culprit as she was supposed to be the first line of defence against these morons.

Ultimately it puts someone tremendous pressure and puts unnecessary media attention to her as she will be known as the imcompetant nurse who breached confidentiality and be unemployable.

The hospital has to take blame and their statement almost sounds it was dug out of somewhere and rehearsed with no meaning. A generic statement for anyone that dies. Just add name word document. Hospital management are real muppets and they don't understand how much pressure goes down on the front line. They only notice when they see what they have stepped on. I extremely detest these pencils pushers and have no respect for HR department at hospitals who treat nurses and Doctors like numbers and throw them around freely without consideration of their social circumstances and ability.

Sure the Prank muppets must take some blame for initiating this chain of reaction, but you have to question if the member of staff got any help at all and just slammed with a hammer and told to come back after your hearing. It's like your world being turned upside down. there are so many unknowns in this case, her social circumstances in this case and we must tread carefully before pointing fingers at someone.

[Biscuit]

I beg to differ, an Incident form will likely have been raised, her line managers told and suspended from her job with a likely 'fittness to practice' hearing from the general nursing council for breech of confidentiality

Except as far as i/we know...

The BBC understands Mrs Saldanha had not been suspended or disciplined by the hospital.

and

The St James's Palace statement said the duke and duchess "were looked after so wonderfully well at all times by everybody at King Edward VII Hospital, and their thoughts and prayers are with Jacintha Saldanha's family, friends and colleagues at this very sad time".

A palace spokesman later added that "at no point did the palace complain to the hospital about the incident".

"On the contrary, we offered our full and heartfelt support to the nurses involved and hospital staff at all times."

SO your making an assumption which is contrary to the evidence provided, pretty much rendering the rest of what you said as wrong/innacurate, especially when at the end you say:

there are so many unknowns in this case, her social circumstances in this case and we must tread carefully before pointing fingers at someone.

If there is nothing to suggest pressure was put on her from any of the bodies involved in the incident, we have no real right to point the finger at anyone other than herself.
The media? Perhaps a little bit but i don't remember seeing any article specifically pointing the finger at her which would pile the pressure on. People have had the finger pointed at them for a lot worse and not killed themselves.
The hospital? Only if she had previously been under a lot of stress and had shown signs of struggling, that still technically detaches her from this specific case.
The presenters? You have to be kidding me right?
I would still drift to the opinion that she was clearly unstable enough that any number of other things could have triggered this event, until i see any evidence to the contrary, i have no reason to believe anything else

[csgohan4]

Do you understand where the BBC gets their information and is reliable? What's stopping the Hospital giving false facts to the BBC? do you truly believe what the BBC writes all the time?? Keep an open mind

I doubt we will ever know the full facts to be honest.

[Biscuit]

Do you understand where the BBC gets their information and is reliable? What's stopping the Hospital giving false facts to the BBC? do you truly believe what the BBC writes all the time?? Keep an open mind

I doubt we will ever know the full facts to be honest.

Do you understand where the BBC gets its info? Given i work in broadcast and have been putting news systems together the past few years, i have a bit of an understanding, not a huge amount to be honest but more than most.

My mind is 100% open to facts and evidence, not fairly random suggestions and assumptions.

I dont believe everything the beeb writes necessarily, but i tend to favour them over most other news sources and have dont feel that much need to doubt them.

That was my point, we dont know the truth, all we know is what has been presented to us so we cant assume anything else and point the finger.

[csgohan4]

If she was under stress noone would say this after death. Everyone will of course say she was the best nurse and cared for her patients, noone's going to say she made alot of mistakes. I agree we have to factor in her unstable nature into the equation, but i'm just skeptical about the Hospital Managers and what they really did.