When a joke goes too far

[0iD]

There would have been action by the NMC for both the nurse who took the call as well as the nurse that disclosed personal info. Both would be at great risk of being struck off the register. The process though is long and arduous and wouldn't have been instantaneous.

Now the suicide of the individual named may have been precipitated by the percieved ramifications of taking the call, such as breaking the NMC code of conduct, bringing the profession into disrepute etc but there would have been an underlying predisposition/condition to warrant such a violent reaction such as suicide.

Is it the fault of the DJ's she died? Well 50/50 (imho) They did tip her over the edge, but she must have been close to begin with.

Studies have indicated that as many as eight out of ten people give warning of their intention to suicide. More often, this intention is not recognised rather than hidden.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

They did tip her over the edge, but she must have been close to begin with.

Cultural background is another thing though. People tend to forget this.

[0iD]

Cultural background is another thing though. People tend to forget this.

It can be a factor, yes. Generally seen more in males.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It can be a factor, yes. Generally seen more in males.

True,but similar trends can be seen for women too(they follow the men) relative to other cultures. People also underestimate the fact we are in a horrible recession. Loosing a job to disciplinary action,especially in the medical profession,would probably be enough to effectively end their career.

[0iD]

True,but similar trends can be seen for women too(they follow the men) relative to other cultures. People also underestimate the fact we are in a horrible recession. Loosing a job to disciplinary action,especially in the medical profession,would probably be enough to effectively end their career.

True, so many unknown additional stressors could and probably were in play to outweigh such protective factors like having children. We just don't know enough to give a definitive answer.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

True, so many unknown additional stressors could and probably were in play to outweigh such protective factors like having children. We just don't know enough to give a definitive answer.

Another factor is that her other half and her two children,are in Bristol,and she was living hundreds of miles away without her family. The position was at a prestigious hospital,and I would suspect for any mother to be away from her children was probably down to pay,ie, she needed to do that to help support her family. The medical profession does put a lot of pressure on people,ie,doctors and nurses can work very long hours and even a minor slip up can be a major issue.

There is no mention fo whether if she has any blood relatives in the UK.

She is of Indian decent,going by the name. So we don't know if she is born here or even a person who came here from abroad. Of it is the latter,well her other half is probably her only real family then I suspect.

The thing is people want to judge this women as being unstable,but it only takes one moment of madness,for someone to do something stupid. It can be just a flood of emotion hitting you in a brief second. Some may get to the lifeboats but others my just get swept away.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...rank-call.html

According to that article she was a shy and timid person.

Edit!!

Down the line a mangled British accent asked to speak to “Kate, my granddaughter,” and Mrs Saldahna, for whom English was a second language, was fooled. She put the call through.

Looks like she is probably from abroad,so I suspect she might not have relatives here then. In South East Asia,suicide rates are among the highest in the world,and culture plays a part in this.

Unless,she has British citizenship,it means her right to stay here might have been in danger if she lost her job.

Some articles say she is married,others that she was not.

[Willzzz]

Another point is that this probably wouldn't have happened if the papers hadn't splashed it all over the front pages. So perhaps they should quit with their high and mighty condemnation of the radio station and presenters.

[csgohan4]

Another point is that this probably wouldn't have happened if the papers hadn't splashed it all over the front pages. So perhaps they should quit with their high and mighty condemnation of the radio station and presenters.

Noone's mentioned about what the papers did any wrong, shame really, society dictates what is right

[Biscuit]

Another point is that this probably wouldn't have happened if the papers hadn't splashed it all over the front pages. So perhaps they should quit with their high and mighty condemnation of the radio station and presenters.

But how can you possibly know that?

[Willzzz]

Well I did say probably.

But if in one scenario you had made a mistake and in another you had made a mistake and it was all over the newspapers. Which scenario would cause you most grief and stress?

[TooNice]

The thing is people want to judge this women as being unstable,but it only takes one moment of madness,for someone to do something stupid. It can be just a flood of emotion hitting you in a brief second. Some may get to the lifeboats but others my just get swept away.

I do not really believe that "something stupid" includes suicide though. I am sure that each one of us has at some point being hit by a flood of emotions. But it's one thing to think about "shutting down", and quite another to carry it out. I do not believe that suicide (in general - like all things, I expect exceptions) is something people do on a whim, even in a moment of madness. This is more of a gut feeling, as the only article [disclaimer - not a medical paper] I could find on a quick Google is this (see: Impulsivity myths): http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suic.../10168/1780274

Would the average woman of any cultural background kill themselves after getting deceived and risk losing their career? Even taking into account living alone in a foreign country etc. my gut feeling is no, if that were the case, suicide rates would be measured in whole percentage, not per hundred thousand.

Could the event be the trigger of the suicide? I don't think we'll ever know for a fact unless a note is found, but t's hard not to make the link. Had this not happened, would something else trigger it? We'll never know. It's hard not to think that one will never be put into a pressure of this severity, for decades, but that is using my own judgement of "severity" and ignoring a person's fortune. For all we know, there was no other crisis lined up for her life had this not happened.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Would the average woman of any cultural background kill themselves after getting deceived and risk losing their career? Even taking into account living alone in a foreign country etc. my gut feeling is no, if that were the case, suicide rates would be measured in whole percentage, not per hundred thousand.

Yes. Sadly,people have killed themselves over less in SEA and I lived in that part of the world for a while.

[TooNice]

So have I. And right now, I am living in a country rather notorious for it's suicide rate.

If we look at the figures (http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...icide_rates/en) suicide rates in India (I am going with your assumptions) is about 50-60% (lazy maths) higher than in the UK, though incidentally lower than the US. Still, looking on the women side column, it is admittedly on the high side by world standard, a whooping 2.6x higher than in the UK. Significant.

Yet in absolute terms, that is 7.8 suicides per 100,000 per year. I can't imagine there being no more than 15.6/100,000 each year who haven't had equivalently stressful experience who decided to carry on living.

Hence I stand by that the averagely stable person would not kill themselves over this (as the sole reason). I'll go a step further and say that even someone on the edge may do all sort of things they might regret later, or contemplate and even plan for suicide.. but not carry it out. Our sense of self-preservation takes a lot to get overwritten. Like I said, suicide rates would be measured in whole percentage otherwise.

I also have doubt the "less" being the sole reason people kill themselves. It might be that the *identified* cause linked to the suicide is (subjectively) less, but there could be a combination of other factors too. Furthermore, if we start looking, I am sure we can also find people who have killed themselves over "less" in Western countries. Social pressure may play a significant role, to the extent that it increases the likelihood of suicide by several times (or more depending on the countries compared) but the actual consequence will only emerge if you are already far past the edge.

All this, of course being my opinion.

[HalloweenJack]

hmmm from a legal point of view - a case could be made for involuntary manslaughter through criminal negligence (or possibly recklessness)

[Saracen]

How?

I can't believe people (not just on here) are seriously suggesting they're at fault in any criminal sense.

That remains to be seen. It's certainly been suggested that they may have committed an offence under Australian law, the Surveillance Devices Act, to be precise.

Whether any legal action ends up being taken, I rather doubt. I doubt this pair of idiots had any intention to break laws, let alone start a series of events leading to a suicide. But they DID start of series of events that, at least, certainly appears to have led to that. Which is why I called them morons. As are the despicable individuals in station management that used the prerecorded segment anyway.

And it's not the first time these morons have pulled stunts like this. The station has already had two five year probation periods imposed on it's licence after breaching Australia's Broadcasting Act. One of those, according to Channel 4, involved hooking a 14 year old girl up to a lie detector and quizzing her about her sex life, only to get an admission she'd been raped at age 12.

And it seems they still haven't learned. And now, one of their tasteless and moronic stunts appears to have led directly to a suicide. Words cannot adequately express the contempt I feel the sad and despicable excuses for human beings behind this kind of "entertainment".

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

So have I. And right now, I am living in a country rather notorious for it's suicide rate.

If we look at the figures (http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...icide_rates/en) suicide rates in India (I am going with your assumptions) is about 50-60% (lazy maths) higher than in the UK, though incidentally lower than the US. Still, looking on the women side column, it is admittedly on the high side by world standard, a whooping 2.6x higher than in the UK. Significant.

Yet in absolute terms, that is 7.8 suicides per 100,000 per year. I can't imagine there being no more than 15.6/100,000 each year who haven't had equivalently stressful experience who decided to carry on living.

Hence I stand by that the averagely stable person would not kill themselves over this (as the sole reason). I'll go a step further and say that even someone on the edge may do all sort of things they might regret later, or contemplate and even plan for suicide.. but not carry it out. Our sense of self-preservation takes a lot to get overwritten. Like I said, suicide rates would be measured in whole percentage otherwise.

I also have doubt the "less" being the sole reason people kill themselves. It might be that the *identified* cause linked to the suicide is (subjectively) less, but there could be a combination of other factors too. Furthermore, if we start looking, I am sure we can also find people who have killed themselves over "less" in Western countries. Social pressure may play a significant role, to the extent that it increases the likelihood of suicide by several times (or more depending on the countries compared) but the actual consequence will only emerge if you are already far past the edge.

All this, of course being my opinion.

You are living in Japan,I actually lived in that part of the world. Trying to equate the SEA to western countries,means nothing as the culture is different. South America has among the lowest suicide rates in the world and most people are still poor there. Moreover,India is a huge country,and you will find that certain parts of the country,ie,the south take a disproportionate of the total suicides,ie, 42% of national suicides is in the southern states which make up 22% of the population. Moreover,suicide is the second major cause of death among 15 to 29 year olds in India:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-18546215

The southern states are wealthier and you tend to find it is people from these parts who are more likely to work abroad too.

People get riled up/affected for the smallest thing over there. If you have lived in SEA,then you would know this. This is why there is still so much conflict to this day internally. Put on typical top of this the family pressure(which is massive),extended family,the views to failure,the views to success, the fact they are expected to help the family at old age,yes it can cause a lot of problems. There is also still loads of prejudice too on a cultural level against people(class) and very strict and rigid social views on things in countries like India(worse than Japan by far).



That attitude,is truer than most people think. The criticism is thought to be there to "toughen you" and push you forward. The problem it does not necessarily help and can lead to the opposite happening.

Japan has this too,but it is probably not exactly the same reasons as in SEA. The problem is that the culture,is not one that leads to people dealing with or even understanding emotions very well or being very open. People jump to the "my life is worthless/over/screwed and I am better off dead" mantra way to quickly,as compared to here or say in a lot of other countries,and too many lose hope way too quickly. FFS,people have killed themselves over cricket matches,even when they have not been involved in any betting.

Over in western countries,people who have been brought up with a more western European attitude to culture,should I say,on average tend to be look at life differently,and will tend to pick themselves up from personal disasters better,and may not consider as many things as personal disasters even.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...rank-call.html

According to that article she was a shy and timid person,and showed no signs of unstability. She called herself a nervous person. Also,the hospital would probably have put a lot of pressure on her too,as this a private hospital not an NHS one which treats rich people.

There is also no indication,that she was have any problems,ie, issues with her other half either or children.

I can simply see it as a case,of her knowing she screwed up big time especially since it was a member of the Royal Family.

The fact that she might have thought she was screwed since she has a nervous attitude(probably worries a lot),is a timid person,ie,might not take knocks very well regarding her job(failure) especially if she has never faced the situation,the fact that jobs are hard to get now and being dismissed would have hurt her chances of getting one. Moreover,with the media in this country which is like a pack of wolves,the worry that her name would be eventually leaked,and she made to look like a fool to the entire world is another consideration.

Its not even depression,just a negative attitude.

Moreover,it would not even surprise me that instead of simply embarassment or even anger over being so badly hoodwinked by some morons,she might have felt ashamed of it(there is a big difference).

On top of that she comes from a culture which takes failure badly,she might have also thought of the shame with regards to her own family(in India or the country she originated from) and even her own other half and how she could face them. The other consideration is also whether she is a British citizen or not. If not her ability to stay here would be dependent on work status,so if she was the negative type,she might have thought,she would be sent packing back to where she held citizenship,etc,separating her from her children.

Moreover,she was essentially living by herself in hospital digs,so it makes me think if she really had anyone she could open up to??

This is why I said the rush of emotion can lead to people doing stupid things.