1600 W maximum on vacuum cleaners from from Sept!

[peterb]

Well it's rather simple - lack of efficiency means more heat.. but if that's what you're going for in the first place then you can't increase efficiency except loss outside of the system.. which should have nothing to do with the element.

Absolutely - and in fact all energy ends up as heat - so using a 1600 (or more0 vacum will heat up your house, so (al;l things being equal) you will save an equivalent amount on your heating bill. Of course, not much use in the summer, or in a hot climate - which is another example of why the EU "one size fits al" approach fails.

[Top_gun]

Absolutely - and in fact all energy ends up as heat - so using a 1600 (or more0 vacum will heat up your house, so (al;l things being equal) you will save an equivalent amount on your heating bill. Of course, not much use in the summer, or in a hot climate - which is another example of why the EU "one size fits al" approach fails.

Not strictly true, PeterB. Some of the energy will end up as noise (law of conservation of energy). As for saving an equivalent on your heating bill, no. Possible saving may only apply to the cold season and even then I cannot see anyone making a quick adjustment to their heating system prior to vacuuming.

The EU one size fit all approach, again, isn't true at all. I can see no evidence to suggest that the EU is undergoing a one size fit all approach for energy saving after reading through their draft report on product energy efficiency.

It seems the EU stance is about promoting energy efficient and reliable products for the consumers.

The energy saving potential for kettles using thick element technology appears to be feasible. The two main reasons why they are more energy efficient are because the printed element is closer to the surface for more efficient heat transfer and the thicker element product has inbuilt sensors for more responsiveness when switching off the kettle.

[ik9000]

Not strictly true, PeterB. Some of the energy will end up as noise (law of conservation of energy). As for saving an equivalent on your heating bill, no. Possible saving may only apply to the cold season and even then I cannot see anyone making a quick adjustment to their heating system prior to vacuuming.

The EU one size fit all approach, again, isn't true at all. I can see no evidence to suggest that the EU is undergoing a one size fit all approach for energy saving after reading through their draft report on product energy efficiency.

It seems the EU stance is about promoting energy efficient and reliable products for the consumers.

The energy saving potential for kettles using thick element technology appears to be feasible. The two main reasons why they are more energy efficient are because the printed element is closer to the surface for more efficient heat transfer and the thicker element product has inbuilt sensors for more responsiveness when switching off the kettle.

that noise is vibration of air molecules, work is done to move them, and they stop moving by dissipating that energy as... you got it - heat. Read up on your laws of thermodynamics. Everything comes down to heat and entropy. The heat death of the universe... good thing it won't happen for another couple of billion years.

[DanceswithUnix]

... and even then I cannot see anyone making a quick adjustment to their heating system prior to vacuuming.

A modern thermostat will do that for you automatically.

Really, if you don't have a modern electronic self calibrating thermostat then get one. Makes the house more comfortable as well as saving energy.

[Zak33]

I agree fully with PeterB on the thermo dynamics

Ever since some silly arse decided that micro bore pipes for radiators would take more heat to your radiator and lose less on the way....I've been shouting in anger " but if the pipe is in your own house and your house is well insulated it's doesn't matter"

On a day in winter when I work from home I vacuum early and radio stays on. Two... Three and even 4 pcs stay on....and the heating rarely cuts in once the house is up to 17 or 18'C

In summer it all goes off the moment it's not in use!

[Zak33]

My thermostat is a mechanical one but it's recent and works well

Honeywell job. I like their basic turny knob thermostat

[Zak33]

The EU one size fit all approach, again, isn't true at all. I can see no evidence to suggest that the EU is undergoing a one size fit all approach for energy saving after reading through their draft report on product energy efficiency.

Maybe it would be more accurate to describe it as " one MAXIMUM SIZE MUST FIT all because that's what you're allowed us to and above that requirement makes you evil so you can't have it...so nerr"

What interests me professionally is industrial strength vacuum cleaners

Carpet cleaning for offices....car wet and dry valeting kit.....that kinda job

Does it apply to them?

Most monster jobs...on all day....10 full interiors per day....sucking gallons of water out of carpet....are they allowed the power they need?

[Top_gun]

I'm probably the only one here who has a high wattage vacuum cleaner and I can say from personal experience it doesn't generate hardly any heat. Yes, the body of the cleaner is warm to the touch but that's about it.

As for sound converting into heat, this is true, but in the real world an HiFi system producing sound isn't likely to replace my central heating on a cold winter day for sure.

The effects of a vacuum cleaner heat supplementing my central heating, I'm afraid is rather minimal. Even if PeterB's claim was completely true this heat saving would only apply to periods of cold weather in any case.

Just out of curiosity Zak, how did you managed to break your pin to the kettle lid?

[peterb]

Ever since some silly arse decided that micro bore pipes for radiators would take more heat to your radiator and lose less on the way....I've been shouting in anger " but if the pipe is in your own house and your house is well insulated it's doesn't matter"

The reverse is actually true (so it was some silly arse with no knowledge of thermo-dynamics) - rate of heat loss is proportional to the surface area of the pipe, but the quantity of heat is proportional to the` volume of the pip. Surface area is a square law, volume is a cubic law, so for a given length of pipe, a large bore pipe has a greater thermal mass, so although the surface area is large, it isn't proportionately larger.

You only have to look at nature to see this scale effect in action. An elephant has a large mass in relation to it's skin surface area - it has large ears to act as a cooling radiator. A mouse on the other hand has a small body volume compared with its surface area - it needs fur and a high metabolic rate to reduce and compensate for the high heat loss.

In central heating systems, a microbore pipe might be easier to insulate, but again, that needs careful consideration because adding insulation increases the outside diameter of the overall pipe - so if you are using poor quality insulation with high thermal conductivity, it is possible to increase the heat loss.

[Dareos]

Just out of curiosity Zak, how did you managed to break your pin to the kettle lid?

I reckon he was adding insulation to the gaps before overclocking it.


On a side note, I had a Dyson for many years, that replaced a 30 year old electrolux. Also have had another electrolux which is starting to suffer, but its probably at least 15 years old now. The Dyson got replaced around a year back as it was basically becoming a pita. constantly washing filters and seeing no improvement, cracked plastic urround (it was a cylinder model, not upright, think dc09, not sure) and its replacement cost being astronomical (£60 or so) made me check out other models. I now have an 1800W Miele, its never set more than half power and its been utterly awesome.

As a few of you know, i suffer from eczema and psoriasis, which means that at times of the year when my skin decides it doesn't like living on me and prefers the floor, I basically strap a vaccuum cleaner to my belt and have it follow me around (really considering a roomba thing, but dont think it could handle the load). The Miele has been awesome and I really cant fault it, picked it up in a sale for about £150 and its been worth every penny. I personally wouldnt go back to a Dyson, but hey, thats my personal experience and im pretty sure someone out there has had the opposite.
Saying that, have a Miele washing machine, also awesome

On an energy note, the call centre I work in has great energy saving methods, such as no air conditioning, motion activated lights and so on. Of course im sitting here just now on a Sunday afternoon, the place is around 1/3rd full if even that, and every single pc is on, every phone is on and every TV is on. Great, aint it....

[kalniel]

I'm probably the only one here who has a high wattage vacuum cleaner

Well my current one wouldn't pass the new EU legislation, so they think it's high wattage - whether it is or not is possibly the subject of some of the discussion in this thread

[peterb]

Following on from my comments earlier about kettle efficiency - I have just seen this...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00IS3LFHI?psc=1

[Agent]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg

That's some quality marketing.

[peterb]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg

That's some quality marketing.

True - but the idea makes sense - While it is probably better to boil just enough water that you need, this does at least reduce the loss from boiling too much - and is more convenient - boil it up in the morning and you save energy through the rest of the day.

[kalniel]

True - but the idea makes sense - While it is probably better to boil just enough water that you need, this does at least reduce the loss from boiling too much - and is more convenient - boil it up in the morning and you save energy through the rest of the day.

Apart from the tea purists who don't like re-boiled water.

[Noxvayl]

Engineers do marketing too... it has done the job for me as it has been added to a wishlist for when the next kettle breaks

One of the 1 star reviews can be paraphrased like this: "boiled it again because we don't know how long ago it was last boiled, sent back after 2 days". Made me laugh that someone thinks tea can only be made with recently boiled water; very hot water doesn't cut it for tea, has to be at the point where water is about to become gaseous before it can be used for tea despite that being way too hot to drink...