Attacks in Paris

[Biscuit]

One of the really concerning things is that it seems these terrorists have realized how much more effective s tsctic it is to open up a fully automatic assault rifle or sub-machine gun instead of blowing up themselves, buildings or cars.

In the context of counter terrorism, explosives are relatively easy to trace and detect due to the chemicals required to make them. They also require a reasonable high level of skill and knowledge to put together and be effective enough to make a real difference beyond psychological impact on society. Guns on the other hand are not so easy to trace but very simple to use and can result in much higher body counts.

[thetwistedblue]

Pretty terrible stuff

[directhex]

I hope so. the only good way to deal with cancer is to kill it off. It's never pretty doing so, and good cells get killed with the bad ones, but cancer is cancer and the sooner you act the better.

Funny story.

http://www.thenation.com/article/wha...sis-prisoners/

[directhex]

It depends on which goals you are thinking of.

That goal. Killing "the grayzone" - Muslims integrated into Western society - in favour of a completely black and white world of "us vs them" for "the West vs Islam"

[Zak33]

I cant imagione the sheer horror of being out with my wife on a Friday night.. to hear gunfire.. and then a distant bomb detonating, or to see the AK's being fired at my loved ones.

In 2005 my wife was at Euston when the bombs started going off on 7/7 2005 and I was no where near to support her or her friends.

All terrorism is effective only if it enduces long term terror. I refuse to be terrorised. I can be scared whitless, but I won't be terrorised.

The history behind the attacks is convoluted and twisted, and have many facets. One of which is that the West is attacking the East and so they retaliate in their own way as they don't have the same attack powers as we do.

To live in Syria would be terrifiying somedays I believe.

[Jowsey]

All terrorism is effective only if it enduces long term terror. I refuse to be terrorised. I can be scared whitless, but I won't be terrorised.

This. My girlfriend told me that we should probably think long and hard about going to any football matches in the future, and I couldn't agree more with her!

I'm a Sunderland fan, I really should consider if I want to pay money to watch that mess of a team. But I won't allow terrorist activities to make my decision because then they (NB, this is the grammatical use of the word "they". I'm not making a them or us statement, just following standard conversational protocol) have won.

A lot of things are being said by a lot of people. From all sides, liberal and conservative.

Just as a small example, not long after the events came to light my facebook exploded with extreme views. People were shouting from one side to close all borders and to assess any recent immigration. Whilst other people were saying that it's a tiny minority and that this doesn't represent all Muslims and that we need to make more of an effort to integrate all Muslims.

I think progressive steps need to be made in an effort to limit these events but it needs to be only a moderate move. Our hand can not be forced to extreme motions because of these events as it will only fuel the fires.

Sadly, the problem is a fundamental one and I do struggle to see how a resolution can be achieved satisfactorily for all.

[The Hand]

Quite an interesting article here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...dernisers.html

It talks about the civil war within Islam itself between the medievalists/Islamist and mordernisers over the past 200 years, due to the waning (and collapse) of Islamic powers such as the Ottoman Empire, along with the rise in power and cultural spread of the Western civilizations.

[TooNice]

Hmm, my initial reaction is that is not how anti-discrimination work.. (in reply to a couple of posts back) or at least should work.. but I admit I haven't looked into it in debt (and presumably the law also vary from country to country).

In sort of an reversal of school shootings, I also note that some US politicians, including but not limited to Trump, are suggesting that the tragedy would have been lessened had France had concealed firearm permits.

I thought a little about it and ended up unconvinced. Unless firearm training required for the permit is a lot more conprehensive than I imagine, including elements of tactical training I wonder if regular civilian can realistically stop the carnage for the following reason:

1. Since we are talking about people willing to blow themselves up, the risk of being shot isn't likely going to be a deterrent.

2. The scene is probably chaotic so you would not only need to know how to use a firearm accurately so as not to hit the crowd, but remain cool and capable of immediately assessing the situation correctly to ensure you are shooting at the bad guy and not another citizen with a gun.

3. On the same token, law enforcement will also need to be more careful in differentiating between terrorists and armed civilian (I don't think it would be wise to assume that anyone with a small firearm as opposed to an AK is necessarily a civilian).

Unless civilians are made to undertake urban warfare training, and ingrained with a constant "combat ready mindset", I suspect that would be quite hard to stop or even diminish the damage caused by an ambush by terrorists with automatic weapons suicide vests.

PS: Excuse the typos - wrote this on my phone while sitting in the train..

[kalniel]

^ I largely agree - surely better to post armed - trained - guards at high profile public events whilst there's an on-going terror threat.

[directhex]

Hmm, my initial reaction is that is not how anti-discrimination work.. (in reply to a couple of posts back) or at least should work.. but I admit I haven't looked into it in debt (and presumably the law also vary from country to country).

In sort of an reversal of school shootings, I also note that some US politicians, including but not limited to Trump, are suggesting that the tragedy would have been lessened had France had concealed firearm permits.

I thought a little about it and ended up unconvinced. Unless firearm training required for the permit is a lot more conprehensive than I imagine, including elements of tactical training I wonder if regular civilian can realistically stop the carnage for the following reason:

1. Since we are talking about people willing to blow themselves up, the risk of being shot isn't likely going to be a deterrent.

2. The scene is probably chaotic so you would not only need to know how to use a firearm accurately so as not to hit the crowd, but remain cool and capable of immediately assessing the situation correctly to unsure you are shooting at the bad guy and not another citizen with a gun.

3. On the same token, law enforcement will also need to be more careful in differentiating between terrorists and armed civilian (I don't think it would be wise to assume that anyone with a small firearm as opposed to an AK is necessarily a civilian).

Unless civilians are made to undertake urban warfare training, and ingrained with a constant "combat ready mindset", I suspect that would be quite hard to stop or even diminish the damage caused by an ambush by terrorists with automatic weapons suicide vests.

There have been more shooting deaths in the last week in the USA than in France.

[Domestic_Ginger]

On Friday ISIL also killed about 40 people in 2 suicide attacks in Lebanon. This iirc due to Hezbollah (Iranian) involvement in Syria.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6732156.html

NATO desroying ISIL in a stand up war will only scatter them to the winds. They then land and ver3.0 starts; it will start.

[robert3892]

Any muslim who kills an innocent is NOT a muslim and any muslim who supports a muslim who is a terrorist is not a muslim

[keldon]

Personally I think this hatred of Muslims is stupid and unhelpful. I don't see these people as Muslim terrorists but just terrorists. Just the same as I don't see the IRA as Catholic terrorists, just terrorists. No matter what they claim, they are still just terrorists.

[peterb]

Personally I think this hatred of Muslims is stupid and unhelpful. I don't see these people as Muslim terrorists but just terrorists. Just the same as I don't see the IRA as Catholic terrorists, just terrorists. No matter what they claim, they are still just terrorists.

True, these are people who are seeking political power and using religious dogma to achieve those ends.

[shaithis]

Personally I think this hatred of Muslims is stupid and unhelpful. I don't see these people as Muslim terrorists but just terrorists. Just the same as I don't see the IRA as Catholic terrorists, just terrorists. No matter what they claim, they are still just terrorists.

Yet there is a theme: Religion.

War on religion next please!

[opel80uk]

Personally I think this hatred of Muslims is stupid and unhelpful. I don't see these people as Muslim terrorists but just terrorists. Just the same as I don't see the IRA as Catholic terrorists, just terrorists. No matter what they claim, they are still just terrorists.

That's an inaccurate and tired comparison. Whilst it's true that most (but not all) Provisional IRA members were Catholic, Catholicism was never the cause for which the IRA said they were fighting for, rather it was for Irish Nationalism which, if you trace it back to it's origin, was effectively started by Protestants, and men of that sect such as Theobold Wolfe Tone are revered in Nationalist, Catholic circles. The sectarianism of the conflict was a by-product, not a cause, in later years throughout the troubles.
Had the IRA been waging their campaign for the 6 Counties to be a Papal state, then the term 'Catholic Terrorist' (assuming one accepts organisations engaged in that kind are terrorists), would be entirely appropriate. But the perpetrators of the Paris attack (assuming it is ISIS) have openly stated that their end goal is to have the entire world governed by Sharia law under Islamic rule and, as such, labelling them Islamic Terrorists is factually correct. To ignore the fact that their interpretation of their faith is at the root of the trouble, is IMO, dooming ones self to fail against them. Does that mean all muslims are terrorists? Of course not, that really does go without saying.