Attacks in Paris

[keldon]

That's an inaccurate and tired comparison. Whilst it's true that most (but not all) Provisional IRA members were Catholic, Catholicism was never the cause for which the IRA said they were fighting for, rather it was for Irish Nationalism which, if you trace it back to it's origin, was effectively started by Protestants, and men of that sect such as Theobold Wolfe Tone are revered in Nationalist, Catholic circles. The sectarianism of the conflict was a by-product, not a cause, in later years throughout the troubles.
Had the IRA been waging their campaign for the 6 Counties to be a Papal state, then the term 'Catholic Terrorist' (assuming one accepts organisations engaged in that kind are terrorists), would be entirely appropriate. But the perpetrators of the Paris attack (assuming it is ISIS) have openly stated that their end goal is to have the entire world governed by Sharia law under Islamic rule and, as such, labelling them Islamic Terrorists is factually correct. To ignore the fact that their interpretation of their faith is at the root of the trouble, is IMO, dooming ones self to fail against them. Does that mean all muslims are terrorists? Of course not, that really does go without saying.

I agree my analogy is not correct, but as you said it's a common misconception which I used to make a point most would understand due to misconception. Just because they say it's in the name of religion(twisted version) does not they are true practitioners of there claimed religion. So my point being not to see them as Muslim terrorists and just terrorists for me holds true.

[TheAnimus]

That goal. Killing "the grayzone" - Muslims integrated into Western society - in favour of a completely black and white world of "us vs them" for "the West vs Islam"

One of my good friends at uni was raised Muslim but had the joys of becoming atheist. His family treated him so horribly

The problem comes that I dislike most religions, I really dislike most versions of Islam preached today. I despise the sexual inequality the placement of religious values above nation laws. These are not irrational fears.

When you look at surveys of the "Muslims integrated into Western society" far too many have views that are frankly at best abhorrent if not illegal.



Frankly if anything we need to realise that integration isn't working very well in a sizeable minority of cases. We need to remove the religious shielding (for all, not just Islam!) that many hide behind. Political Correctness has gone too far when it tries to remove the right to question, to debate.

[Haxorus]

The media have brainwashed most people into thinking a group of uneducated cretins hiding being a religion whilst causing havoc around the world equates to all muslims having the same ideology. The thing that needs to improve is more muslim leaders collaborating with governments and standing up together to stop the rise of ISIS.

[kalniel]

Political Correctness has gone too far when it tries to remove the right to question, to debate.

Completely agree, but luckily in this country there aren't any problems with questioning or debating.

[Jowsey]

The media have brainwashed most people into thinking a group of uneducated cretins hiding being a religion whilst causing havoc around the world equates to all muslims having the same ideology. The thing that needs to improve is more muslim leaders collaborating with governments and standing up together to stop the rise of ISIS.

I agree on collaboration, however a lot needs to be said of Muslim societies if they are to remain so attached to there core beliefs and attitudes in western culture. There needs to internal policing from the Muslim community.

Every Muslim I have become friends with shows such incredibly tight family ties and nearly as tight personal friendships to other Muslims. Somebody knows what everybody is doing. I don't ever believe it when people commit acts of terrorism in the name of religion and the people around them go "Gee, that was unexpected."

I recently watched the Thunderf00t video on the events in Paris and he brought to light the real issue facing us:

Terrorists have now worked out they can do more damage with a gun and a couple clips of ammo than they ever could do with there crude bombs. This genuinely terrifies me. I have never been so incredibly thankful of our extremely tight gun laws and the brave men who enforce them.

Now if only we could sort out the Police budget so that they are properly funded...

[ik9000]

I agree on collaboration, however a lot needs to be said of Muslim societies if they are to remain so attached to there core beliefs and attitudes in western culture. There needs to internal policing from the Muslim community.

Every Muslim I have become friends with shows such incredibly tight family ties and nearly as tight personal friendships to other Muslims. Somebody knows what everybody is doing. I don't ever believe it when people commit acts of terrorism in the name of religion and the people around them go "Gee, that was unexpected."

I recently watched the Thunderf00t video on the events in Paris and he brought to light the real issue facing us:

Terrorists have now worked out they can do more damage with a gun and a couple clips of ammo than they ever could do with there crude bombs. This genuinely terrifies me. I have never been so incredibly thankful of our extremely tight gun laws and the brave men who enforce them.

Now if only we could sort out the Police budget so that they are properly funded...

I agree with much of your post, but does anyone know what the "core beliefs" really are? Just out of interest, has anyone here read the koran? As I understand it there are two distinct periods in which the koran was written, one with Islam in the minority role and one when they were dominant in society. The way they are asked to live are different in the two cases - and they should always aim to get to be in the latter case. Unsuprisingly the "radicals" emphasise the latter stage much more and they use it (hopefully distortedly, though I don't know the koran well enough to say). How much it is distortion remains to be seen, but I remember going to an Islam awareness course at uni and some of the speakers were not too discrete at saying some of this. When I tried to ask a question on it the q&a was hastily wound-up.

[Domestic_Ginger]

Get your tin foil hats on.

This whole episode is actually lifted from star wars. The puppet master is using these attacks in order to allow the drafting of new laws and powers in order to create a new order.

It makes sense. ISIL is little more than the trade federation. Who is really behind them? They where interned within a US camp; under control where the idea behind IS came into being. The US are talking gun laws; safety is top of everyone's agenda.

Who is the Sith lord?

[Macman]

Russia now asking EU and USA to bury the hatchet. (So to speak) To join forces and tackle ISIS head on. And Anonymous declaring war on ISIS.

If the world teams up inc. Anon - surely that is not something you want to mess with?

[ik9000]

Get your tin foil hats on.

This whole episode is actually lifted from star wars. The puppet master is using these attacks in order to allow the drafting of new laws and powers in order to create a new order.

It makes sense. ISIL is little more than the trade federation. Who is really behind them? They where interned within a US camp; under control where the idea behind IS came into being. The US are talking gun laws; safety is top of everyone's agenda.

Who is the Sith lord?

One lord and one apprentice...

it's not these two is it?

[Domestic_Ginger]

[TooNice]

Every Muslim I have become friends with shows such incredibly tight family ties and nearly as tight personal friendships to other Muslims. Somebody knows what everybody is doing. I don't ever believe it when people commit acts of terrorism in the name of religion and the people around them go "Gee, that was unexpected."

I find it hard to believe that many Muslim parents in the West, are happy to see their daughters going to war torn Syria to marry ISIS fighters. Every time something like this is reported, the families are described as devastated, having begged for their daughter to come back, with some even attempting to retrieve them themselves (keep in mind that ISIS has not been shy in killing other Muslims). Given that, it is clear that tight ties does not lead to everyone (even parents) necessarily knowing what everyone else (their children) is doing at all time. It is just not possible, especially in the days where most people can find a way to privately access the net.

And if young teens can hide their intention to go off to marry ISIS fighters from their parents, I think that adults can hide their intention of terrorist acts from the people around them.

[antonisk]

So many great powers in the world and they have let ISIS become what it is, when they probably had the power to destroy them of the face of the earth. A shame it comes to this for the to take action.

[peterb]

Seems to be some more action this morning with a seized in a Parisian suburb. Meanwhile attitudes in favour of increased military involvement in Syria seem to be hardening in Parliament.

(Admin note - I have removed the sub thread about discrimination to a new thread, an important subject but had gone away from the core of this thread http://forums.hexus.net/general-disc...-good-bad.html)

[Domestic_Ginger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34850573

Hacker group anonymous is attacking ISIL. They are closing media outlets. Is this good to deny them attention that the hackers believe is crucial or is this just denying security services the chance to monitor activity?

Both sem legit to me. Long term the former but for now the security services need all the info they can get.

[TheAnimus]

Is this good to deny them attention that the hackers believe is crucial or is this just denying security services the chance to monitor activity?

Definitely will be the latter. GCHQ we all know monitors this stuff!

They still get the media attention because no one will shut up about the attacks, this glamorises them. A real problem is a large number of Religious Muslims don't think that these attacks are wrong. The statistics after the Charlie Hebro attack were shocking, in places like Turkey in some regions over 25% openly admitted to supporting the actions against those who satirise their beloved prophet.

The news outlets are not twitter or forums, it's a culturally ingrained strain of a religion, along with a consideration of those outside it unworthy.

[shaithis]

The media have brainwashed most people into thinking a group of uneducated cretins hiding being a religion whilst causing havoc around the world equates to all muslims having the same ideology. The thing that needs to improve is more muslim leaders collaborating with governments and standing up together to stop the rise of ISIS.

The irony of talking about the media brainwashing people and then mentioning religion......

Religion is brainwashing and that is the problem. These problems will always exist as long as people have a non-existent entity to hide behind.