Attacks in Paris

[peterb]

People do not blow themselves up to give someone else a bit more political power.

They can be pursued to do it under a religious context though.

Yes, they are the ones manipulated, but the manipulators are motivated by power.

You are in danger of falling into the trap that because some actions are conducted in the name of religion, all followers of that religion behave in the same way as the few.

[kalniel]

Quite - there are any number of banners that are used by nutters. If there were no such thing as religion then it'd be nationalism, or racism, or consolism whatever. People do and have done a lot more than blow just themselves up in plenty of non-religious causes.

[ik9000]

Fairly sure many of the Japanese kamikaze did it for the empire, not for a religion...

[The Hand]

There's another attack happening in Mali at the moment... check the news channels.

[Galant]

There's another attack happening in Mali at the moment... check the news channels.

BBC
"Two people have locked in 140 guests and 30 employees in "a hostage-taking situation", the hotel's owners said in a statement. Police have surrounded the hotel, which the gunmen entered shooting, and shouting "God is great!" in Arabic, a security source told Reuters.

A BBC reporter says the US-owned hotel is popular with expats working in Mali. A Chinese guest told China's state news agency Xinhua via a mobile app that he was among a number of Chinese guests trapped there.

In August, suspected Islamist gunmen killed 13 people, including five UN workers, during a hostage siege at a hotel in the central Malian town of Sevare. France, the former colonial power in Mali, intervened in the country in January 2013 when al-Qaeda-linked militants threatened to march on Bamako after taking control of the north of the country."

[j.o.s.h.1408]

There's another attack happening in Mali at the moment... check the news channels.

where?

cant see any mentioning of it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-34840858

o i thought in paris. swear you just did a ninja edit there and i read it as paris!

[ik9000]

October 2011: Ethnic Tuaregs launch rebellion after returning with arms from Libya

The west stood back as the arab spring happened, or worse assisted the uprisings in the name of freedom and democracy, and the result has been anything but. Massive destabilisation, loss of security and control, propagation of heavy arms and resultant civil wars in wider countries, with an increase in terrorism, fanatacism etc. We helped topple Gadaffi, did nothing to help the follow up. And both Libya and neighbouring countries suffer. Not condoning the regime or its practices, but has the uprising and otherthrow really improved anything? The migrant ships start in Libya unchallenged and encouraged. Arms are available, as is oil to run and finance these groups. It is no longer the case we can say "it doesn't affect us, we shouldn't interfere". For a long time people have criticised the US for "meddling" in other countries' affairs. It seems we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. At what point does the UN have to say it's time to start doing something holistic and long-term to set up proper governance in these countries?

[The Hand]

Fairly sure many of the Japanese kamikaze did it for the empire, not for a religion...

Well, Imperial Japan did promote the idea that the emperor was a god in human-form so I would say it was at least semi-religious. The ultra-nationalists in the regime wanted to have Shinto as the national religion, since it was a Japanese only religion and shun Buddhists completely to make Japan mono-theocratic like Saudi Arabia is today.

[The Hand]

where?

cant see any mentioning of it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-34840858

o i thought in paris. swear you just did a ninja edit there and i read it as paris!

Yea sorry guilty of the ninja edit! I thought it was in Paris initially since they said it was where French troops were stationed.

Edit:

Looks like a number of nationalities within the hotel and mixed reports on whether Mali/French forces are storming the building or not.

[pp05]

Proper democracy has to come from within. Otherwise it's just shiny buildings.

The west stood back as the arab spring happened, or worse assisted the uprisings in the name of freedom and democracy, and the result has been anything but. Massive destabilisation, loss of security and control, propagation of heavy arms and resultant civil wars in wider countries, with an increase in terrorism, fanatacism etc. We helped topple Gadaffi, did nothing to help the follow up. And both Libya and neighbouring countries suffer. Not condoning the regime or its practices, but has the uprising and otherthrow really improved anything? The migrant ships start in Libya unchallenged and encouraged. Arms are available, as is oil to run and finance these groups. It is no longer the case we can say "it doesn't affect us, we shouldn't interfere". For a long time people have criticised the US for "meddling" in other countries' affairs. It seems we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. At what point does the UN have to say it's time to start doing something holistic and long-term to set up proper governance in these countries?

[TooNice]

Well, Imperial Japan did promote the idea that the emperor was a god in human-form so I would say it was at least semi-religious.

To be honest, I doubt things would have been much different even if the Emperor had not been granted divine status.

During the Sengoku period, samurais were known to lay down their lives for their lord, who may have ruled over them, but certainly were not divine. Death was also preferrable to loss of honour (from, say, surrendering).

And I would also say that human wave attack is suicidal to the point of not being that far off suicide bombers and such, yet it happens even in instance where no religion is at stake.

Basically I think that under some circumstances, some people may be convinced that a cause is so great that it is worth their life. Such cause may have nothing to do with the divine.. and may, I believe, even be political if certain conditions are met.

On the other side of the spectrum, I am sure there are also people who may value self-preservation so dear that they would not willinly give it up even if their entire family or perhaps the survival of the species is at stake. 7B people on y the planet, you are bound people of all sorts, especially in extreme environment..