Unofficial Hexus Brexit Straw Poll - In, Out, Undecided?

[Andy3536]

This argument is going a bit bizarre.

Migration isn't necessarily about who's coming here. But how many. When the EU free movement first opened up, you have to say that the numbers coming here were a sign of a strong economy and they've helped that.
But year after year having net migration close to and over 300,000 is an unsustainable figure. That's an extra 300,000 that need access to the NHS, dentists, School places, housing, Jobs.
To say you are worried about that, doesn't make you a racist.
You could also argue, that if migration was at a more sensible level for those years. Lets say < 100,000. That would in the long run give this country more scope to take in people that really need help. Like Syrian Refugees mabee???
But, with housing, NHS and schools all struggling to keep up with the pace of the current required increase. That doesn't give you alot of wiggle room to help those that really need it.
But the biggest thing with all of this is, it's not people we elect making these decisions for us about who can come here and how many. The decisions are being made by those appointed to office in the EU commission.
I also, don't understand why it's more difficult for Australians, New Zealanders, Pakistanis, and Indians to move here. When they've already got family ties and links to the UK. Than it is for those from Europe that don't.
Why would people be against a points based system, taking in people from all over the world, but favoring those with family here and/or from the commonwealth. To having having an open door to the EU, which is going to continue to open itself up to more countries?
It should also be pointed out, that any vote to leave. Would not involve retrospective action. So if we do vote to leave, there could well be by the time we do leave be around 4 million people here from the EU, that will continue work here after we leave the EU.

[opel80uk]

LOL!

You need to ask yourself why "our" women are being drawn to these "foreigners".

Because they are being seduced by their eastern charms.

[SeriousSam]

*** Placeholder for spectacular rant on why anyone who believes that immigration is a non-issue in regards to the referendum is at best a blithering idiot ***

Meanwhile I shall be in the garden doing some stuff to ensure that I don't have to buy crappy vegetables from a supermarket

[opel80uk]

All joking aside, IMO, this thread serves as a little snap shot of what the referendum has become. Peter Mandelson wasn't entirely wrong when he said that the reason the Brexit camp had become so fixated on immigration was mainly as a result of the flimsy nature of their economic arguments. I've often been of the opinion that there is a strong underlying current of xenophobia, pushed along with a touch of little Englander syndrome, in many 'OUT' supporters, and nothing I've seen or read about this referendum has made me change my mind. Of course, it goes without saying that not every 'OUT' supporter is xenophobic, but the overriding issue on this seems to be immigration, and specifically buying into the fear of the 'other'. Sad, but entirely predictable. Even sadder is that I think the Brexit camp will win.

[SeriousSam]

All joking aside, IMO, this thread serves as a little snap shot of what the referendum has become. Peter Mandelson wasn't entirely wrong when he said that the reason the Brexit camp had become so fixated on immigration was mainly as a result of the flimsy nature of their economic arguments. I've often been of the opinion that there is a strong underlying current of xenophobia, pushed along with a touch of little Englander syndrome, in many 'OUT' supporters, and nothing I've seen or read about this referendum has made me change my mind. Of course, it goes without saying that not every 'OUT' supporter is xenophobic, but the overriding issue on this seems to be immigration, and specifically buying into the fear of the 'other'. Sad, but entirely predictable. Even sadder is that I think the Brexit camp will win.

Both Remain and some within Leave want this to devolve into an immigration issue... the former are scared witless of a serious debate and the latter think they can buy votes from various demographics. Neither serves the best interest of the British people.

[The Hand]

I am voting to leave for reasons other than immigration.

The Poles/Eastern Europeans (in Lincoln at least) are nice and friendly and maybe have made the area a slightly more friendly place to live. Polish women strike me as a bit more down to earth (as well as good-looking ) compared to quite a few English women who can act like petulant drama queens with a bloated sense of entitlement.

Edit: Not that I'm disregarding concerns on immigration, it's just that immigration will still happen outside the EU although in a different form possibly in the way that Neil Woodford points out here:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...onomics-report

on immigration “Policy is far more likely to change to restrict the number of low-skilled workers entering the country and shift towards attracting more highly skilled workers. This would be a potential headache for low-wage sectors heavily dependent on migrant labour, such as agriculture, but could benefit other sectors with a shortage of highly skilled labour.

So if Brexit comes to pass, immigration may become a headache for the middle classes as opposed to the working classes.

[TooNice]

I also, don't understand why it's more difficult for Australians, New Zealanders, Pakistanis, and Indians to move here. When they've already got family ties and links to the UK. Than it is for those from Europe that don't.
Why would people be against a points based system, taking in people from all over the world, but favoring those with family here and/or from the commonwealth. To having having an open door to the EU, which is going to continue to open itself up to more countries?

However free movement within the EU also allows Brits to live and work in the rest of the EU. I am not against having a point based system for the rest of the world, it's not one or the other. And I'd love it if the UK can have a free movement agreement with Australia and New Zealand (AFAIK, those two countries already have some free movement agreements between them). Much as I like the UK, I find it enriching to spend time in other countries too (and not just as a tourist). And Australia and New Zealand are on my list of countries I'd like to spend some time living.

[SeriousSam]

If I wanted to be asinine and reduce the referendum to a black and white decision it would come down to;

Remain = Team Iron Man

Leave = Team Captain America

[wazzickle]

*** Placeholder for spectacular rant on why anyone who believes that immigration is a non-issue in regards to the referendum is at best a blithering idiot ***

Meanwhile I shall be in the garden doing some stuff to ensure that I don't have to buy crappy vegetables from a supermarket

Count me in as a class A idiot then.

[Andy3536]

However free movement within the EU also allows Brits to live and work in the rest of the EU. I am not against having a point based system for the rest of the world, it's not one or the other. And I'd love it if the UK can have a free movement agreement with Australia and New Zealand (AFAIK, those two countries already have some free movement agreements between them). Much as I like the UK, I find it enriching to spend time in other countries too (and not just as a tourist). And Australia and New Zealand are on my list of countries I'd like to spend some time living.

In theory, yes i agree that it sounds good. And no doubt, when the agreement was signed, the reality of the situation probably didn't occur to most.
A free movement between the UK, Aus and NZ. Would in truth work much better. Mainly down to the fact that both of those countries have reasonable economys as opposed to the eurozone which has large areas of much lower pay and much higher unemployment.
You'd also get Brits going the other way, which isn't really happening now in any real amount.
The big problem though, is simply volume. When net migration is so high. That means other forms of migration/immigration need to be kept small. You have little wiggle room as schools, doctors, hospitals, housing etc are at capacity. we're simply not building/training at a rate that can support the volume.
That's why, inside and outside the EU is linked. And can't been seen in a separate light.
At the moment, the EU policy is something we have no say in. It also forms the bulk of migration of which is over 300K (net) And it's precisely because you have to deal with that volume, and that problem. That means you need to drastically limit migration/immigration from other areas.
It's difficult to see a way of changing any aspect of migration/immigration policy whilst remaining in the EU.
And while we are in the EU, that migration won't change until the economys of the eastern and southern countries starts to drastically improve. And that's simply not on the cards for the foreseeable future.

[SeriousSam]

Count me in as a class A idiot then.

Simply put... if immigration is a concern to just one person eligible to vote in the referendum then it IS an issue irrespective of the validity of that perspective.

[wazzickle]

Fair enough.

My concern is about fish. Nothing specific, just fish. Therefore it is an issue, irrespective of anything else.

[Andy3536]

Fair enough.

My concern is about fish. Nothing specific, just fish. Therefore it is an issue, irrespective of anything else.

If your concerned about fish, you really should vote out. The EU commission has moved to make any Anglers catching a number of bass criminals. This didn't go through the fisheries commitee at the EU, and wasn't voted on by the EU parliment.
So if fish is your concern, welcome to the out campain ;-)
http://www.ukbass.com/2016-a-ban-on-...t-for-anglers/

Brought up in the EU parliament.

[wazzickle]

Way too specific. My issue is only vaguely about fish.

[SeriousSam]

Way too specific. My issue is only vaguely about fish.

And how does your vague concern make you feel you want to vote ?

[OilSheikh]

...

Mate, I find it pointlesss to argue with you. You go and Vote IN and I'll vote OUT. Just make sure, your kids can forgive you for your decision in the future when they can't even land jobs in retail when they are in their teens.