What would "No Deal" mean for you?

[OilSheikh]

Yes, so basically after my wife was told to leave the UK, our options were to move to another EU country where I am not a citizen (but to become a resident).

Under these circumstances my wife can stay in that EU country, provided that I got either a job (within 3 months of arrival), or enough funds for private healthcare and can be self supportive.

To live in the UK with my wife, i must have a Job that earns 18,600 regardless of what she earns. Where as in any other EU country I just need a job, it's doesn't matter how much I earn, so long as I am not a burden on the state.

It's the same for a French person with a non EU spouse living in France (they must adhere to the French rules on immigration) but if they move to another EU country, the EU rules come into force, and the spose can stay and can work so long as the EU citizen has a job or is self supporting.

A French guy living in London, with a American wife has to conform to the underlying EU rules on the spouse right to residency, as he is not a UK citizen just a UK resident... where as a British guy living in London with a American wife must adhere to the UK rules on his spouses residency. It's only if the British guy was to move to Paris would he have to adhere to the EU rules not the French rules.. It's the same accross the EU.

That creates the Surinder Singh visa loop hole, where the UK citizen can move to Paris with his American wife for a period of time, then when he returns to the UK after said period living in France, he is no longer classed as a UK citizen for visa purposes, thus being able to settle without with his wife without having to earn 18,600. He just needs to be self supportive.

In my case i could return to the UK now get a minumum wage job and my wife could stay too, but a no deal Brexit could mean the UK can backtrack from these EU rules and kick my wife out once more. But after being forced out in the first place neither of us want to return to the UK. Ideally we want to saty in Spain, and no deal could also make that scienario impossible.

j,
Why don't you do this ?
Take the £18k job.
Set up a limited company with one of your mates as the Director ( You can call it Ukraine language school ? ) and assuming she earns £1k a month, ask her to pay your mate £500 a month. Your mate will then deposit the £500 into the business account of the company. You will be an employee of your mate and he will pay you £400 a month.

When you try to apply for a visa for your wife, your total income will be taken into account. This way, your earnings are easily more than £18,600

Btw, I have a feeling the £18,600 limit will be increased soon. With the sky high rents these days, it's difficult to survive on this figure.

[Saracen999]

j,
Why don't you do this ?
Take the £18k job.
Set up a limited company with one of your mates as the Director ( You can call it Ukraine language school ? ) and assuming she earns £1k a month, ask her to pay your mate £500 a month. Your mate will then deposit the £500 into the business account of the company. You will be an employee of your mate and he will pay you £400 a month.

When you try to apply for a visa for your wife, your total income will be taken into account. This way, your earnings are easily more than £18,600

Btw, I have a feeling the £18,600 limit will be increased soon. With the sky high rents these days, it's difficult to survive on this figure.

Better yet, assuming Mrs 1979 speaks Ukrainian, and half-decent English, actually operate an English-language school for Ukrainians. Make a genuine business out of it, with a genuine income.

Oh, and in your sums, OilSheikh, don't forget (nominal) fees for starting a limited company, fees for Companies House annual return, and filling in the return, then hwving to do payroll, PAYE, NI, etc, and the NI returns for HMRC, etc.

So somebody either needs to know all this stuff, pay someone to do it, or learn fast.

It's not as easy as it used to be ... but certainly not impossible.

[OilSheikh]

Better yet, assuming Mrs 1979 speaks Ukrainian, and half-decent English, actually operate an English-language school for Ukrainians. Make a genuine business out of it, with a genuine income.

Oh, and in your sums, OilSheikh, don't forget (nominal) fees for starting a limited company, fees for Companies House annual return, and filling in the return, then hwving to do payroll, PAYE, NI, etc, and the NI returns for HMRC, etc.

So somebody either needs to know all this stuff, pay someone to do it, or learn fast.

It's not as easy as it used to be ... but certainly not impossible.

Thou art absolutely right. I am pretty sure a high street accountant can handle this for cheap.

[Saracen999]

Thou art absolutely right. I am pretty sure a high street accountant can handle this for cheap.

Given that I did it all myself, I sure hope so, bearing in mind my chartered accountancy training was 40-ish years ago.

[ik9000]

Given that I did it all myself, I sure hope so, bearing in mind my chartered accountancy training was 40-ish years ago.

is there anything you can't t do? law, accounts, journalism, publishing, it seems you many strings to your bow!

[Ttaskmaster]

So IF we leave with no deal, what then would be the EU commissions attitude? Punitive, or pragmatic?

As above - I think they'll take the punitive approach, regardless of what deal or not we come out with.

is there anything you can't t do? law, accounts, journalism, publishing, it seems you many strings to your bow!

Use spellchecker?

[delta5361]

Short term there will be a couple of obstacles and as someone else said, a recession (this would happen anyway) but I think long term it'll work out the same / slightly (better/worse)

[Saracen999]

is there anything you can't t do? law, accounts, journalism, publishing, it seems you many strings to your bow!

Well, there's IT as well. Several years in post-sale support for a couple of very large US IT companies, in the finance sector.

But law? I've lost count of how many times I've pointed out "IANAL". Oh sure, I passed a couple of pretty basic (post-grad) law exams, but I am NOT any form of professional lawyer. There have been times when I've asked friends or family, then passed on their advice when I felt even a second-hand professional opinion would help, rather than just another forum post. It comes from having a family full of police officers and members of the judiciary, and a friends list that includes VERY senior members of both .... including, though I doubt I ever specified it, somes extremely senior judges and one that was (now deceased) as senior as it was to get.

But largely, any legal knowledge comes from an inate interest, a lot of reading and some really ( ) fun parties and dinners.

Also, journalism leads (or did with me, anyway) lead to some .... unusual .... situations. Like dinner invitations ranging from Downing Street (yes, that bit of it), to CEO's of multinationals, to going to Canada for a dinner, to end up partnered with the Spanish Ambassador to Canada.

But think about it. If you had a "fun" social life full of lawyers, etc, and an academic life that led to chartered accountancy, wouldn't you jump at a chance of getting into journalism?

I mean, meet loadsa interesting people, travel all over the world and spend much of your time testing and reviewing, or previewing, the latest tech gadgets weeks or months, occasionally a year or more, before release? Getting to see the good, bad and ugly? Access to development labs, technical and product managers and even the blue-sky 'thinkers'?

Or ....sit in a room and pore over sccounts, doing audit, insolvency or .... shudder .... tax?

It'd be like showing a modern teenager and iPhone and PS4, then giving him an abacus, a couple of baked bean tins with some wet string, and a Monopoly set.

Weird career path? I guess.

Did I plan it out that way? Oh, hell, no.

Looking back, if given a do-over, would I change it? A tweak or two round the edges, but in the fundamentals .... I'm not that much of an idiot.

Oh, and "publishing". Technically yes, but that bit was pretty incidental (to journalism) and sounds more impressive than it is.

[Saracen999]

....
Use spellchecker?

There's two answers to that. Well three, but given your former career (I think) I forego the punch on the nose option as :-

- it sometimes offends, and
- always gets one's butt thoroughly kicked.

So, the other two ...

1) Spoilchucket? On this tablet? It barely has the grunt to power the virtual keyboard

And

2) 25 years as a journalist. If you'd spend hslf your working life watching evefy last dot, comma, pronoun and preposition, because you KNEW an editor would spot everything, and your chances (as a freelance) depended on giving a commissioning editor EXACTY what they comissioned and with the absolute minimum of effort required by them, would you then choose to do the same in your leisure time? Is you would,I can recommend a good psychiatrist (not, I hasten to add, from personal experience).

So as far as forum posts are concerned, I do try go make them clear enough that they can be understood. If the reader sometimes has go work a big at it, well, it's good for their soul.


Am I going to faff about with a spellchucker? Check back with me on that after we've sern Satan doing the dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy, dressed in a fluffy pink lace tutu, on the frozen-over molten lava lakes of Hell. And no, I don't mean a forum-name of Satan, I mean the defrocken archangel with the smoking eyes, horns pitchfork.

TL : DR Version.

I can use a spoolchicken, and do proessionally.

I just choose not to beggar about with it, online. And no, I didn't run one on that line.

[TeePee]

Well, there's IT as well. Several years in post-sale support for a couple of very large US IT companies, in the finance sector.

But law? I've lost count of how many times I've pointed out "IANAL". Oh sure, I passed a couple of pretty basic (post-grad) law exams, but I am NOT any form of professional lawyer. There have been times when I've asked friends or family, then passed on their advice when I felt even a second-hand professional opinion would help, rather than just another forum post. It comes from having a family full of police officers and members of the judiciary, and a friends list that includes VERY senior members of both .... including, though I doubt I ever specified it, somes extremely senior judges and one that was (now deceased) as senior as it was to get.

But largely, any legal knowledge comes from an inate interest, a lot of reading and some really ( ) fun parties and dinners.

Also, journalism leads (or did with me, anyway) lead to some .... unusual .... situations. Like dinner invitations ranging from Downing Street (yes, that bit of it), to CEO's of multinationals, to going to Canada for a dinner, to end up partnered with the Spanish Ambassador to Canada.

But think about it. If you had a "fun" social life full of lawyers, etc, and an academic life that led to chartered accountancy, wouldn't you jump at a chance of getting into journalism?

I mean, meet loadsa interesting people, travel all over the world and spend much of your time testing and reviewing, or previewing, the latest tech gadgets weeks or months, occasionally a year or more, before release? Getting to see the good, bad and ugly? Access to development labs, technical and product managers and even the blue-sky 'thinkers'?

Or ....sit in a room and pore over sccounts, doing audit, insolvency or .... shudder .... tax?

It'd be like showing a modern teenager and iPhone and PS4, then giving him an abacus, a couple of baked bean tins with some wet string, and a Monopoly set.

Weird career path? I guess.

Did I plan it out that way? Oh, hell, no.

Looking back, if given a do-over, would I change it? A tweak or two round the edges, but in the fundamentals .... I'm not that much of an idiot.

Oh, and "publishing". Technically yes, but that bit was pretty incidental (to journalism) and sounds more impressive than it is.

There are some longer stories there.... Wish I could make a Hexus.Social.

[Saracen999]

There are some longer stories there.... Wish I could make a Hexus.Social.

It might be fun and you'd probably enjoy it, but I wouldn't know, having never been.

I've never liked parties. Ever. Do my best to avoid them. Small gatherings, 6 to 8 max, fine. More than that and about the only ones I attend are funerals, weddings, and press events. And I've pretty much given up the latter .... though do have some good stories about some I did go to.

But as the years have gone by, I find myself more and more inclined to do (or not do) as I please, and less and less inclined to do what I think others think I ought to do.

I've nothing against HEXUS socials, but to be honest, I'm just not that social. Certainly not anymore. Being a non-drinker doesn't help, but ultimately, it comes down to being less and less inclined to events like that. More inclined to stay home, read, listen to music, garden, cook and, on those occasions something worthwhile is on, watch TV.

Wot a party animsl, eh?

There are indeed a few quite qood stories, but you'd have to get me well drunk to tell some of them and, well, as I said, teetotal, etc. Good luck with that.

[Ttaskmaster]

There's two answers to that. Well three, but given your former career (I think) I forego the punch on the nose option

Not a bad guess, but I'd be far more likely to shoot or shell you from afar, if it escalated far enough for me to use violence. We could duel on Hampstead Heath, if you preferred, but I worry I may have the advantage there even if you had the choice of blades...

would you then choose to do the same in your leisure time?

Actually I would. Spelling and punctuation, at least.
Already most of my work stuff has to be as perfect as possible, but when text-messaging, emailing or generally communicating with people I like (which includes the HEXUS community) I like to take the effort and make sure all my (unintentional) typos are corrected before I post. It bugs the hell out of me if I find a mistake.
That's why it takes me so long to reply.

Is you would,I can recommend a good psychiatrist

I'd prefer a good 'councillor'....

And no, I don't mean a forum-name of Satan, I mean the defrocken archangel with the smoking eyes, horns pitchfork.

Would it count if Tom Ellis does it in an episode of Lucifer?

I can use a spoolchicken, and do proessionally.
I just choose not to beggar about with it, online. And no, I didn't run one on that line.

I know. I just enjoy teasing you about it occasionally!

[Saracen999]

....

Would it count if Tom Ellis does it in an episode of Lucifer?


I know. I just enjoy teasing you about it occasionally!

On the Tom Ellis bit .... actually, you know, I think it would. His Lucifer is a favourite character of mine, and I'd be most impressed if you could swing that.

As for the teasing, every young lad deserves a hobby. I guess I found yours. Probably serves me right for the number of times I've invited meself round fir a barbie, etc.

[Ttaskmaster]

On the Tom Ellis bit .... actually, you know, I think it would. His Lucifer is a favourite character of mine, and I'd be most impressed if you could swing that.

Not sure I can get him to do it in Hell, but he might be up for the dance and the tutu. I'll enquire next time I run into him.
Meanwhile, here's Tom in a kilt, which is certainly getting there...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-mXCflXkAQHLDC.jpg

As for the teasing, every young lad deserves a hobby. I guess I found yours.

Nah, it's all meant in good humour. I tease all my friends about their spelling!

As for hobbies - I'm actually finding myself being more and more limited by stupid new government regulations on everything. Latest one is being unable to order a putty knife online, in case I manage to (somehow) cut someone with the very blunted, rounded blade edge...!!

[jimborae]

No Deal for me means giving a platform to these idiots and scum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-pol...mp-anna-soubry

I've seen a lot of the footage banging around twitter and it makes me sick. Police, until today, effectively ignoring it till media pressure and the court of public opinion means they have to be seen doing something.

Did we learn nothing from the death of poor Jo Cox.

[Saracen999]

Or an alternative view is that there are always extremists of various political persuasions, that will camp on any hit topic if they think they can rabble-rouse.

The problem is with the extremists, not the cause or viewpoint they attempt to hijack. One of the central characters in that incident has also been seen wearing a MAGA (Make America Great Again) baxeball cap, wearing (as many of those were) a yellow jacket in an attempt to piggy-back on tne French protests, and giving evocative speeched at a Free Tommy Robinson rally.


As someone that has no fear of No Deal, I DO NOT condone physical assault, violeence or in-yer-face intimidation, and those muppets certainly don't spsak for me, any more than Joe Cox's killer did.



However, there is a pretty widespread feeling in msny countries that ruling elites do not speak fir them, do not listen to them, and do not serve their interests. We can see it in the rise of Trump, of the AfD in Germany, of both left and right in Italy, and many other countries (France, Holland, Austria, Hungary, parts of Scandinavia, and so on.

So, very large numbers of people have been brewing resentments over this for years if not decades, and recent changes in communications, social media, etc, allow them to coalesce, even to arganise, in ways not possible a few years ago.

Where we need to be careful if a fairly fine line between vociferous and even loud, rowdy protest, and harrassment and intimidation, and this (IMHO) fallx on the wrong side of it.

That said, two more points.

One - this isn't new. This kind of intimidation has been following Nigel Farage around for years, and how ong ago was it that some twerp took a swing at John Prescott and got thumped back for his efforts?

Two - none than John McDonnell is in favour of such direct action, saying "When politicians are not listening, we have the right to get out onto the street. Non-violent cirect action is important in this country. and in a different speech ....

"I want to be in a situation where no Tory MP, no coalition minister, can travel anywhere in the country or show their face anywhere in public without being challenged by direct action."

That latter was in 2013, well before Brexit, or "no deal".

Also, remember a few weeks ago when Jacob Rees Mogg, and his family and even children were harangued in the street.

So, we have a vocal remainer (Soubry) getting the same sort of treatment as a leading Brexiter, Mogg (and his kids) got.


There is a fine line between legitimate if vocal direct action, and harrassment/intimidation, which is already illegal. Police are "looking at" this incident to see if it crossed the line.

Bear in mind that even if police don't interfere at the time, it might be a strategic decision if them piling in might make things worse. It also, by the way, is probably exactly the kind of response the agitators were hoping for. Unless the situation gets really out of hand, the best policing response may well have been hang back, don't inflame it, gather evidence and feel the idiot's collars later, at their leisure.