Election Results as they happen...

[DanceswithUnix]

I also know a lot of people who have lived in the north and said racism is rife there.

Clearly my personal experience is worthless compared to second hand information. I stand corrected.

[outwar6010]

Brexit has caused people to see things that aren't there....to find indignation from something that's said.... where actually, what exists are real objections that have nothing to do with race.

nothing at all

Brexit isn't about racism. It's not about race. It's about the UK chosing, by the skin of it's teeth .. to leave the EU, which, has a lot of people from the human race.

Now... about this headline "Massive surge in Google searches for moving abroad after general election result"

thats fine.. let people leave if they want. It's still not a race thing.. it's a nationality thing. It's about people wanting to live in another country. That has nothing to do with race.

The fruit left to rot on the tree, with no EU nationals (who were workers) to pick it is a real problem. But perhaps it will, like all things resolve itself ONCE BREXIT RULES ARE LAID OUT and we know how it's going to be.. but they're not laid out yet, are they?
And once they are... we as a country will adapt. As we always have.

But lets read the whole thing shall we?
"This year’s worker shortages are the latest in successive years of labour problems which began in 2013 when the UK government ended a seasonal workers visa scheme that enabled farmers to bring in pickers and packers from outside the EU.

That came ahead of workforce shortages across the EU as Polish, Bulgarian and other eastern European citizens, who had previously sought seasonal work in western Europe, are increasingly able to find jobs closer to home. The UK has suffered particular difficulties because of uncertainties about visa status, the fall in the value of sterling and headlines about poor treatment of immigrants."

now I haven't removed the last section about poor treatment of immigrants.. ..... But the first statement was that it was easier to find work closer to home.

It's not a race thing.. it's just not.

Northerners aren't any more racist than Londoners, or Reading dwellers... they're just not. Bigots exist, and they are in the minority. No one I know alienates people because of their race.

They MAY dislike them because of their personality, or belief, but not because of the colour of their skin

"The figures emerged as Boris Johnson came under fire for saying that EU migrants had been “treating Britain as their own” for too long."

It blatantly is about race and deciding who's really british and who's not. Many tory and brexiteers will spout the same rhetoric as the far right nonces such as farage robinson golding and the others. There has been a spike in islamophobia thats gone hand in hand with all this too. Mosques up and down have been firebombed, muslims have been targeted along with other non white people and its insulting that you say it's not about race because it blatantly is. Our current nob of a prime minister has said a ton of racist and islamophobic things with no consequences and not only that he's doubled downed on them spouting bs about freedom of speech etc.

Northerners aren't any more racist than Londoners, or Reading dwellers... they're just not. Bigots exist, and they are in the minority. No one I know alienates people because of their race."

Have you seen the election map? outside of london its mainly blue. They voted for a person who doesn't apologise for the awful racist things he said. So what you're saying is patently untrue and people on this forum are celebrating this "victory" and it actually makes me sick. For a very long time on this forum there's been soo many discussions about brexit and the benefits. There are none that brexiteers here have said justifies anything that happens as a result of brexit. We know the tories real motivation which is to appease his short seller friends who bet something like 6-7Bn on brexit breaking britain; so the logical conclusion is that people's motivations for still voting for brexit and the tories are trumpian.

[Zak33]

"The figures emerged as Boris Johnson came under fire for saying that EU migrants had been “treating Britain as their own” for too long."

It blatantly is about race and deciding who's really british and who's not. Many tory and brexiteers will spout the same rhetoric as the far right nonces such as farage robinson golding and the others. There has been a spike in islamophobia thats gone hand in hand with all this too. Mosques up and down have been firebombed, muslims have been targeted along with other non white people and its insulting that you say it's not about race because it blatantly is. Our current nob of a prime minister has said a ton of racist and islamophobic things with no consequences and not only that he's doubled downed on them spouting bs about freedom of speech etc.



Have you seen the election map? outside of london its mainly blue. They voted for a person who doesn't apologise for the awful racist things he said. So what you're saying is patently untrue and people on this forum are celebrating this "victory" and it actually makes me sick. For a very long time on this forum there's been soo many discussions about brexit and the benefits. There are none that brexiteers here have said justifies anything that happens as a result of brexit. We know the tories real motivation which is to appease his short seller friends who bet something like 6-7Bn on brexit breaking britain; so the logical conclusion is that people's motivations for still voting for brexit and the tories are trumpian.

So what you're saying is, if you voted tory, you're racist? Blue = racism?
Is that right? Lets be entirely clear on this in total clarity. If someone voted Tory.. they are Racist? Is that what you're saying?

Because if you are, you're accusing half of the country of being racist.. including the Muslims who I know voted Tory... is that right?

[Zak33]

actually...don't bother answering that.

I don't want to fall out with you on this - it's a forum board and I have better things to do that argue with people who hold such opposite beliefs that we both will run aground in the storm and make no progress.

Johnson is not a nice human being, but he's in charge and for better or worse, it's not Jezza who frankly was incompetent.. and that was decided by huge swathes of Labour voters switching sides for the first time ever. There is no conceivable way that they can all be racist.

[[GSV]Trig]

I don't think its about being racist, its about how the media have spent the last 3 years conditioning people into thinkgin that the EU is bad and we are better off out..

I voted to Leave, but then again I also voted Labour, make of that what you will, unlike some though, I woud have had no issue with a second referendum, given the amount of lies that were coming out before the vote, but the fact that Boris wants Brexit so badly, that makes me suspisicous as I have no doubt in my mind he isnt a man of the people and is, like a lot of his chums, are just in it for themselves....

[Zak33]

/\ that is a lucid thought train that I understand.. thanks Trig

[TeePee]

There is no such thing as a 'Worker Shortage'. What there is is a pay shortage. Where businesses were previously able to exploit migrant labour, often from Eastern Europe, they are now increasingly being forced, by the labour market, to pay appropriately in order to hire a British worker. This is good, both for the workers that are now being paid better, and also for Britain, as more money is spent here, rather than sent abroad.

Being Anti-immigration isn't (always) racist.

[Top_gun]

I thought personal attacks weren't allowed on this forum?

They normally allow abuse if it's aimed at me. As soon as I give a vigorous response they tend to dress it down as abuse. Even calling someone a Brexiteer is regarded as abuse despite a poll on this forum saying otherwise. Just incredible.

It is absurd when they suggest no one in the north is racist unless they're part of Farage/Robinson groupees. Just incredible again.

[Top_gun]

It's not a race thing.. it's just not.

Really, I definitely know that you rarely back up your assertions with facts.

Anyway, there's plenty of evidence that links Brexit with the rise in hate crimes.

Brexit 'major influence' in racism and hate crime rise.

[Top_gun]

Clearly my personal experience is worthless compared to second hand information. I stand corrected.

Rather, I place more weight on personal experience from people that I know and trust than some stranger on an internet forum. Also, a lot of racism incidents are covert. Again something lots of people wouldn't know about.

Just incredible to think, that some how your personal experience trumps other people's experience. Just incredible.

[Top_gun]

I live in the north and have all my life, like anywhere it is a minority that is usually fueled by idiots like Farage and Robinson and I can honestly say out of all the people I have known throughout my life only 2 of them are racist one of which being my mother. You cannot just throw out a blanket statement saying that most people up in the north are racists, sorry but that is just a load of crap.

When you think north you are aware it could be part of the country above Manchester also, what is basically nicknamed true north

Us in London regard anything North past Watford and upwards.

[Top_gun]

I don't think its about being racist, its about how the media have spent the last 3 years conditioning people into thinkgin that the EU is bad and we are better off out..

I don't think it's about racism at all. Most of the media are owned by billionaires. Leaving the EU just creates a power vacuum for them.

The likes of Dominic Cummings and Nigel Farage ruthlessly exploited the racism aspect of the British people during the Brexit campaign in order to achieve its main aim. There's a Youtube video somewhere that explained the Brexit strategy. Worth a watch.

[kalniel]

There is no such thing as a 'Worker Shortage'. What there is is a pay shortage. Where businesses were previously able to exploit migrant labour, often from Eastern Europe, they are now increasingly being forced, by the labour market, to pay appropriately in order to hire a British worker. This is good, both for the workers that are now being paid better, and also for Britain, as more money is spent here, rather than sent abroad.

I'm not sure - it's not like we've got lots of skilled workers just waiting for the right pay in order to be hired. Unemployment is at a record low and we really do have a massive shortage of nurses, plumbers, builders etc. Paying more (which we are doing, as you can tell if you speak to anyone who is trying to get house renovation/fixing done) isn't magicing people out of nowhere to fill the shortage, it just makes them prioritise your work over someone else who can't afford to pay more.

[Top_gun]

So what you're saying is, if you voted tory, you're racist? Blue = racism?
Is that right? Lets be entirely clear on this in total clarity. If someone voted Tory.. they are Racist? Is that what you're saying?

Because if you are, you're accusing half of the country of being racist.. including the Muslims who I know voted Tory... is that right?

No it's not what he is saying. That's you not understanding the political map and having a general poor understanding of politics.

The BBC had done an analysis where areas with the lowest population of immigrants tend to vote Leave and the highest population of immigrants voted remain. Of course there were exceptions to this like Bradford and Birmingham. These areas have a high concentration of Asians and it was felt that Brexit will benefit them through more freedom of movement with countries like Pakistan and India.

Immigration was the main issue amongst Leave areas and these areas were located in mostly in rural areas. Tories tend to hold seats in rural areas while Labour tend to hold seats in major Urban areas. Very strange that immigration was the most important concern in areas where 99 per cent of the population was already white British. Hence why a number of people have linked Brexit with xenophobia.

[TeePee]

I'm not sure - it's not like we've got lots of skilled workers just waiting for the right pay in order to be hired. Unemployment is at a record low and we really do have a massive shortage of nurses, plumbers, builders etc. Paying more (which we are doing, as you can tell if you speak to anyone who is trying to get house renovation/fixing done) isn't magicing people out of nowhere to fill the shortage, it just makes them prioritise your work over someone else who can't afford to pay more.

It is certainly bringing more people in to those professions. People are drawn from unemployed/underemployed in to unskilled work, and can then afford/leverage training toward more skilled work, thanks to the higher pay.

A builder now needs (and can afford) to hire a labourer to keep up with the extra work he has to pay enough to keep the labourer, who then has the money for training in, er, building, etc..

Nurses become CCRN's, to Nurse Practitioners, while unskilled workers have motivation toward education.

It's making these jobs in to viable career paths, and discouraging people from leaving the profession.

[Ttaskmaster]

You were asked to substantiate your claims in the first place but clearly you couldn't because you decided a classic avoidance strategy of turning the tables.

Actually, you never asked. You merely asserted an opinion and then assumed that was acceptable as a valid challenge.

But back to things you have said before this, which remain unsubstantiated opinion:

The Brexiters only won because they exploited a group of people who just couldn't know any better.

London attracts the brightest.

London people are better able to see through the Tory lies.

However, if you truly understand politics and able to get information from independent sources then you realise Tories are just a pure lying machine not fit to run the country.

The main reason why graduates vote for Labour is that they have a good understanding of politics and economics.

You deal with all ^that, get it properly proven and presented as a valid argument, and then we'll look at mine. Until then it merely remains as what you think, rather than anything more substantial.

Since you can substantiate your claims then I will publish government stats about exactly how many people commute to London just to prove you are making things up.

Since I can? Yep, cool. Good. Publish away, then.

You have no idea about my age or personal experience.

I base it on what you've provided me and presented in this thread, and the manner in which you've presented it. Direct, pure, unadulterated evidence on which to base my assertion. Despite several references to this, you've yet to even hint at any inaccuracy in my assessments thus far...

In fact I'm laughing at you as you struggling to get to the answers.

How you choose to envision me is not really much of my concern, but elements of it are actually protected by copyright and I charge by the hour... Legal representatives from Samuel Goldwyn Films and/or Universal Pictures may be in touch.

As for Little Reading, sorry it's very much an irrelevant place no matter how much you dress it up. If someone asked me what the 1980s were like I say go to Reading.

If Reading were anything like the 1980s, I'd have moved here far sooner. As is, it looks an awful lot like London, these days... and is set to get worse, as we import even more London commuters to yet another set of housing developments.

My next door neighbours who are both graduates and currently work in the financial sector with offices around the world.

So are most of my father's friends in Kent. What's your point?

They are plenty of graduates in London who are in highly paid jobs.

There are plenty outside of London, too. Probably more, given how much bigger Not-London is. Again, what's your point?

Clearly you don't understand London despite you saying that you had lived there.

Yeah, I do - That's precisely why I moved out!

London is the home for many political think tanks and academics, where people like myself have access to.

Yeah, funny you say that - We're headquartered in Reading, but our largest R&D and Operations sections are based in London, because the front line always go where the biggest pieces of sewage are. Coincidence? I think not!

It also has a myriad of campaign groups where I'm able to gain far more knowledge and insight than what you can gleamed from the rags.

So an assertion of, and appeal to, an authority that supports a confirmation bias, together with another assumption about my own sources... ?

If anything I am more out of touch with the newspaper nonsense regurgitated on this forum but far better connected with people in London who actually know stuff.

So an admission of deliberate ignorance concerning several sources, while admitting a bias toward another based on assumed authority...?

They expect tories that for over a decade haven't cared about northerners and have systematically made things significantly worse to change......

I think that's more indicative of just how badly every other party did this time, that even if the Tories are as bad as people assert, they're still the best option for these poor Northerners!!

I thought personal attacks weren't allowed on this forum?

That would have sounded better if you'd raised the issue several pages back, when they actually began.

I guess it's on rule for admins and another for us.

Actually you'll struggle to find a lighter, fairer and more just team of forum Admins (including Mods) than on HEXUS.

Are you honestly saying that the north doesn't have a problem with racism and bigotry lol. That's incredibly disingenuous.

No, he's not and to try and assert otherwise is both disingenuous and a fallacy... maybe several fallacies. I might count how many, if I get some time later.

Brexit has brought out and emboldened the moronic racists in the country most of whom are objectively are in the north.

North?
What like Southall? That's West London.
Brixton, maybe? Nope, that's South.

Interestingly, I found this:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...and-and-wales/

It blatantly is about race and deciding who's really british and who's not.

Given how much of Europe comprises the same 'races' as the UK, I think you'll find race is not really an issue, here.
Nationality, sure, but not race.

There has been a spike in islamophobia thats gone hand in hand with all this too. Mosques up and down have been firebombed, muslims have been targeted along with other non white people and its insulting that you say it's not about race because it blatantly is.

Have you any statistics on the races of the victims, and of the perpetrators?
I'm somewhat genuinely interested in what you have, but expect you'll find many of those attacking non-whites are themselves non-white too. ISTR several incidents when I was living near in Southall, of attacks back and forth between Afro-Caribbeans and Asians. Same for areas like Manchester, Brum and even Scotland.

Have you seen the election map? outside of london its mainly blue. They voted for a person who doesn't apologise for the awful racist things he said.

So did the majority of the country. But that's what happens when you're stuck between a rock and a hard Brexit...
It's always the lesser of two weevils.

So what you're saying is patently untrue

You're absolutely correct. What Mister Zak should have said is that Northerners are actually less racist than Londoners or Reading dwellers, as demonstrated by the stats above!

people on this forum are celebrating this "victory" and it actually makes me sick.

Oh, you'd be equally sick if the Remoaners had won and were celebrating the nation's continued voluntary slavery to the unelected dictatorship of Brussels, I'm sure...

Really, I definitely know that you rarely back up your assertions with facts.

Facts, you say?
OK, let's see what facts you come up with:

Anyway, there's plenty of evidence that links Brexit with the rise in hate crimes.

So one link, and even then it's to a report by the BBC, one of the most heavily criticised sources in terms of bias and heavily questioned in terms of facts... is that all you have? One report by a racist, homophobic, anti-Hindu, anti-Sikh, pro-Muslim, London-centric bunch of fake news shilling Left-winger tax dodgers?

To quote a good friend of mine: "Of course, if you accept what's gospel from a very bias media"...

Rather, I place more weight on personal experience from people that I know and trust than some stranger on an internet forum.

Funny - I do the exact same and yet you try to dismiss that. Double standards there, matey.

Just incredible to think, that some how your personal experience trumps other people's experience. Just incredible.

Coming from you and the purely personal experiences you've used to assert your arguments?
Nah....