Page 1 of 9 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 135

Thread: Hifi buffs...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Robert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North West
    Posts
    1,003
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked
    9 times in 5 posts
    • Robert's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P6X58D Premium
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7 920
      • Memory:
      • Corsair 12GB Dominator 1600Mhz
      • Storage:
      • 10TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia GTX 480
      • PSU:
      • Corsair AX1200
      • Case:
      • Corsair 800D
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 HP Retail
      • Monitor(s):
      • Eizo SW110W+
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 100Mb

    Hifi buffs...

    I'm sorry - this is a sort of rant. It annoys me seeing people going out and spending STUPID money on cables...especially when they're DIGITAL! WTF! Even speaker cables which are decent are going to make such a small difference it's untrue. Then it's "omfg can you hear the difference..it sounds so much better" - no dude it sounds better because you are conning yourself into believing that £100 cable is worth it. Then it's..."make sure those speakers are positioned correctly...get a ruler out and get someone in to check the acoustics of the room" - whilst I agree positioning can be important...I find it hard to believe that decent kit could sound any better by positioning it mm perfect, get them a decent way apart and facing the same way = win. Then there's the AV type..."I've just spent £90 on a HDMI cable" - you do know a £5 would do exactly the same job - "Oh no the difference in PQ is stunning...so much clearer".


    It seriously gets me. It gets to the point where differences in hardware just cannot be heard by the human ear...and the changes become so tiny, but still you get people screaming from the roof tops about how their krell amp can do XR$DX or it sounds "richer" or "fuller" I mean come on...they've invented their own language for christ's sake!

    I say:

    No more than £500 on an amp
    No more than £10 on cables
    No more than £300 on a CD player

    Anyway...I'm probably totally wrong, but still

  2. #2
    Drop it like it's hot Howard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Surrey, South East
    Posts
    11,731
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked
    42 times in 39 posts
    • Howard's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P5B
      • CPU:
      • Core2Duo E6420 2.13GHz
      • Memory:
      • 2x1gb OCZ DDR2 6400
      • Storage:
      • 250GB & 500GB Seagate
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Inno3d iChill 7900GS
      • PSU:
      • Antec SmartPower 500W
      • Case:
      • Coolermaster Elite 330
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2x AG Neovo F419
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 20mbit
    You're right about the cables, but wrong about the equipment. Pricey equipment will always sound better than budget equipment, and it's basically never ending. Unless it's Bose. Ew.


    You need to buy yourself some gold plated optical cables I think
    Home cinema: Toshiba 42XV555DB Full HD LCD | Onkyo TX-SR705 | NAD C352 | Monitor Audio Bronze B2 | Monitor Audio Bronze C | Monitor Audio Bronze BFX | Yamaha NSC120 | BK Monolith sub | Toshiba HD-EP35 HD-DVD | Samsung BD-P1400 BluRay Player | Pioneer DV-575 | Squeezebox3 | Virgin Media V+ Box
    PC: Asus P5B | Core2duo 2.13GHz | 2GB DDR2 PC6400 | Inno3d iChill 7900GS | Auzentech X-Plosion 7.1 | 250GB | 500GB | NEC DVDRW | Dual AG Neovo 19"
    HTPC: | Core2Duo E6420 2.13GHz | 2GB DDR2 | 250GBx2 | Radeon X1300 | Terratec Aureon 7.1 | Windows MCE 2005
    Laptop: 1.5GHz Centrino | 512MB | 60GB | 15" Wide TFT | Wifi | DVDRW


  3. #3
    Senior Member Robert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North West
    Posts
    1,003
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked
    9 times in 5 posts
    • Robert's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P6X58D Premium
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7 920
      • Memory:
      • Corsair 12GB Dominator 1600Mhz
      • Storage:
      • 10TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia GTX 480
      • PSU:
      • Corsair AX1200
      • Case:
      • Corsair 800D
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 HP Retail
      • Monitor(s):
      • Eizo SW110W+
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 100Mb
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard

    You need to buy yourself some gold plated optical cables I think

    Hahahaha! Quality.

    Well...I say anything around £500 is going to sound superb.

  4. #4
    Taz
    Taz is offline
    Senior Member Taz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,111
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked
    26 times in 25 posts
    • Taz's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z270 HD3P
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core i5 7600K
      • Memory:
      • Corsair CMK16GX4M2B3200C16R Vengeance LPX 16 GB
      • Storage:
      • Samsung 960 EVO M.2-2280 500GB (PCIe) + 1TB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (SATA)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 OC
      • PSU:
      • Corsair CS550M 550W Hybrid
      • Case:
      • NZXT Source 340
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • 34" Asus Designo Curve MX34VQ UWQHD Monitor
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media Vivid 200
    I used to have a HiFi system based on a Linn Sondek turntable. My speaker cables alone cost more than £2000! They were specialist SonicLink cables, the speakers were tri-amped and tri-wired. The whole system was insured separately for £12,000. The speakers were Linn Kabers and required an annual service from Linn, so I had to ship them to Scotland every year!

    When I eventually got a CD player it was just a transport with separate outboard DAC. All the interconnections used Michelin gold-plated phono plugs. The stylus on the turntable cost £500 (it was a moving coil cartridge).

    Of course, it sounded absolutely perfect...to me.

  5. #5
    Senior Member pr0p4g4nd4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Worcester, UK
    Posts
    1,439
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked
    1 time in 1 post
    If your spending £500+ on an amp (therefore about the same with speakers) you honestly might want to get a slightly more expensive and thicker cable and probably bi-wire the amp & speakers. No more than £100 on cables I'd say (including bi-wire).

    Quote Originally Posted by Taz
    I used to have a HiFi system based on a Linn Sondek turntable. My speaker cables alone cost more than £2000! They were specialist SonicLink cables, the speakers were tri-amped and tri-wired. The whole system was insured separately for £12,000. The speakers were Linn Kabers and required an annual service from Linn, so I had to ship them to Scotland every year!

    When I eventually got a CD player it was just a transport with separate outboard DAC. All the interconnections used Michelin gold-plated phono plugs. The stylus on the turntable cost £500 (it was a moving coil cartridge).

    Of course, it sounded absolutely perfect...to me.
    Unless you have amazing ears (which even only a small percent of true audiophiles have) the differences are negligable once you pass the £1500 mark I've found. I think most expensive hi-fi setups are based on the placebo effect.
    Last edited by pr0p4g4nd4; 30-06-2006 at 10:53 AM.

  6. #6
    Spodes Henchman unrealrocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Nottingham UK
    Posts
    2,390
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked
    2 times in 2 posts
    Trust me, decent quality gear sounds very different. I've recently left the budget arena by getting some B&W DM640i speakers, and they sound brilliant. Although day in day out I get to use Genelec and ADAM monitors worth well over £10k each and they sound so much better! As it gets more expensive you do spend more in order to get higher quality but depends how much you want to spend or what you want to use it for.

    One of my lecturers swears by decent cables (interconnects at least) and he said he'd lend me a pair of Nordorst interconnets, so I shall be able to judge for myself if they really make much difference

    G4 PowerMac - Tiger 10.4 - 512MB RAM
    MacBook - 2Ghz - 1GB RAM - 120GB HDD

    Rotel RC970BX | DBX DriveRack |2x Rotel RB850
    B&W DM640i | Velodyne 1512

  7. #7
    HEXUS.social member 99Flake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,713
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked
    94 times in 60 posts
    Whilst you have a point on the digital cable side of things I would disagree on speaker cable. Whilst I would never advocate spending £10 per metre on speaker cable, spending £3-4 per metre to get decent, thick and shielded cable will make a huge difference over the thin standard stuff, same goes for any analogue interconnect. A £20 phono cable that is thick and well built will outperform a horrible supplied cable and will last for years.

    And I would agree with the others on the equipment. I have a £500 Denon amp and a £250 Cambridge Audio Azur 640c CD player. I don't use the Denon to actually send the sound to the speakers, instead I have a pair of Rotel power amps that run in bridged mode, one for each speaker. These cost over £500 each when new (I got the pair for £250 second hand) and blow the Denon out of the water for sound quality.

    Going higher and my dad has a £2200 Linn Ikimi CD player, Quad amp and a pair of £4000 Wilson Benesch speakers. This setup sounds so good you can't help but sit and listen as it picks detail out of a cd you have never heard before.

    So as for your rant - no never pay for a digital cable (digital is NOT sound until it make it into a DAC somewhere) but spend a bit on other cables. And better equipment does make a difference.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Robert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North West
    Posts
    1,003
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked
    9 times in 5 posts
    • Robert's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P6X58D Premium
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7 920
      • Memory:
      • Corsair 12GB Dominator 1600Mhz
      • Storage:
      • 10TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia GTX 480
      • PSU:
      • Corsair AX1200
      • Case:
      • Corsair 800D
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 HP Retail
      • Monitor(s):
      • Eizo SW110W+
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 100Mb
    I still don't agree on the cables...aslong as they are correctly wired the difference is going to be so negligible it's untrue. I'm not saying buy some tatty old cable from a second hand shop, rather some decent cable which will do the job fine.

    Edit:

    Atm i have a naim nait 3 amp
    B&W 601 S3s
    soon a CD player

    So I have some good kit...I think maybe a newer amp and I'd be set.
    Last edited by Robert; 30-06-2006 at 11:09 AM.

  9. #9
    Taz
    Taz is offline
    Senior Member Taz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,111
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked
    26 times in 25 posts
    • Taz's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z270 HD3P
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core i5 7600K
      • Memory:
      • Corsair CMK16GX4M2B3200C16R Vengeance LPX 16 GB
      • Storage:
      • Samsung 960 EVO M.2-2280 500GB (PCIe) + 1TB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (SATA)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 OC
      • PSU:
      • Corsair CS550M 550W Hybrid
      • Case:
      • NZXT Source 340
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • 34" Asus Designo Curve MX34VQ UWQHD Monitor
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media Vivid 200
    I would agree that there is a placebo effect happening to some extent but I went through a phase where I actually became obsessed with getting the lasty 0.0000001% of signal out of my records and CD's.

    I was spending everything I earnt in the 80's and 90's on HiFi, upgrading constantly to a system that was quite astounding. It got to the point where you could actually hear how bad the original master recordings on CD's were, particularly AAD recordings (which are rare these days).

    The speaker cables were impedance matched to the drivers in the Linn Kabers and were directional. There were made out of silver.

    I was into suspending mains cables in the air to reduce capacitance, turning off the fluorescent display on the CD player to reduce interference (it was an Arcam Delta CD transport on which you could switch off the display), using sorobothane (special rubber) feet on all system components to reduce vibration, using spikes on my system rack and speakers to reduce vibrations, etc.

    I stopped just short of having a separate ring mains wired in my home with gold-plated sockets! I guess it was turning into an obsession and to get the next 0.01% of pure sound extracted from my audio source was becoming exponentially too expensive. It was a classic case of the law of diminishing returns.

  10. #10
    Senior Member kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    29,152
    Thanks
    1,507
    Thanked
    2,924 times in 2,370 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X58A UD3R rev 2
      • CPU:
      • Intel Xeon X5680
      • Memory:
      • 12gb DDR3 2000
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2311H
      • Internet:
      • O2 8mbps
    OMG!!!!! Someone's advocating digital?!? Don't you know the performance hit in sampling???!!! </sarcasm>

    Analogue all the way

    I refuse to go near a hi-end hifi setup - I'm just about okay with my JCV T1 micro and I know that if I listen to something costing 5 grand I'll never be happy again.

    But then again I'm into classical and I'm still not all that happy with anything that isn't live and in a good concert hall

  11. #11
    sneaks quietly away. schmunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wiki Wiki Wild West side... of Sussex
    Posts
    4,424
    Thanks
    40
    Thanked
    163 times in 121 posts
    • schmunk's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Abit NF7-S v2.0
      • CPU:
      • AMD Athlon-M 2500+
      • Memory:
      • 1GB of Corsair BH-5 and 512MB of something else
      • Storage:
      • 160GB Seagate Barracuda
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ATI Radeon X800Pro, flashed to XT
      • PSU:
      • Hiper Type-M ~400W
      • Case:
      • Antec cheapy
      • Monitor(s):
      • AG Neovo F19 LCD
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 4MB/s
    Quote Originally Posted by Taz
    The speaker cables were impedance matched to the drivers in the Linn Kabers and were directional. There were made out of silver.
    Directional, eh? And how exactly does that work?

  12. #12
    Drop it like it's hot Howard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Surrey, South East
    Posts
    11,731
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked
    42 times in 39 posts
    • Howard's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P5B
      • CPU:
      • Core2Duo E6420 2.13GHz
      • Memory:
      • 2x1gb OCZ DDR2 6400
      • Storage:
      • 250GB & 500GB Seagate
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Inno3d iChill 7900GS
      • PSU:
      • Antec SmartPower 500W
      • Case:
      • Coolermaster Elite 330
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2x AG Neovo F419
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 20mbit
    The Linn &#163;10/metre cable I'm using on my front speakers is directional
    Home cinema: Toshiba 42XV555DB Full HD LCD | Onkyo TX-SR705 | NAD C352 | Monitor Audio Bronze B2 | Monitor Audio Bronze C | Monitor Audio Bronze BFX | Yamaha NSC120 | BK Monolith sub | Toshiba HD-EP35 HD-DVD | Samsung BD-P1400 BluRay Player | Pioneer DV-575 | Squeezebox3 | Virgin Media V+ Box
    PC: Asus P5B | Core2duo 2.13GHz | 2GB DDR2 PC6400 | Inno3d iChill 7900GS | Auzentech X-Plosion 7.1 | 250GB | 500GB | NEC DVDRW | Dual AG Neovo 19"
    HTPC: | Core2Duo E6420 2.13GHz | 2GB DDR2 | 250GBx2 | Radeon X1300 | Terratec Aureon 7.1 | Windows MCE 2005
    Laptop: 1.5GHz Centrino | 512MB | 60GB | 15" Wide TFT | Wifi | DVDRW


  13. #13
    Taz
    Taz is offline
    Senior Member Taz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,111
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked
    26 times in 25 posts
    • Taz's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z270 HD3P
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core i5 7600K
      • Memory:
      • Corsair CMK16GX4M2B3200C16R Vengeance LPX 16 GB
      • Storage:
      • Samsung 960 EVO M.2-2280 500GB (PCIe) + 1TB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (SATA)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 OC
      • PSU:
      • Corsair CS550M 550W Hybrid
      • Case:
      • NZXT Source 340
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • 34" Asus Designo Curve MX34VQ UWQHD Monitor
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media Vivid 200
    Quote Originally Posted by schmunk
    Directional, eh? And how exactly does that work?
    This is usually for shielding purposes to reduce distortion.

    There's an FAQ here:

    http://www.monstercable.com/faqs/

    "Will I notice a difference if I hook up my cables in the wrong direction?
    You probably will not, but if you think that you are experiencing noise problems, check that they are. Cables are directional for shielding purposes only. Should you not see these arrows, remember that the signal flow should go in the same direction of the print on the cable jacket, reading left to right away from the source (source to destination)"

  14. #14
    Flat cap, Whippets, Cave. Clunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    11,056
    Thanks
    360
    Thanked
    725 times in 459 posts
    i also agree on the cables, but not on the equipment. for years there has been some serious hifi snobbery about cables and its only in very recent times that you will see people that used to spend hundreds and hundreds on cables that are now forced to admit that it is indeed a waste of money and is the 'snake oil' effect.

    im all for good kit, i bought some B&W 603 s3 speakers and as part of the deal they threw me in some QED silver anniversary bi-wire stuff (around &#163;10/metre) and i did a blind test with some mains cable from b&q (cost a few pence per foot) and not one of us could tell any difference. yes, the QED stuff looked nice, was solidly built and made of silver, but whats the point if it sounds the same, and who wants to look at speaker cable anyway?

    just my 2p/metre.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzen View Post
    stupid betond belief.
    You owe it to yourself to click here really.

  15. #15
    sneaks quietly away. schmunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wiki Wiki Wild West side... of Sussex
    Posts
    4,424
    Thanks
    40
    Thanked
    163 times in 121 posts
    • schmunk's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Abit NF7-S v2.0
      • CPU:
      • AMD Athlon-M 2500+
      • Memory:
      • 1GB of Corsair BH-5 and 512MB of something else
      • Storage:
      • 160GB Seagate Barracuda
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ATI Radeon X800Pro, flashed to XT
      • PSU:
      • Hiper Type-M ~400W
      • Case:
      • Antec cheapy
      • Monitor(s):
      • AG Neovo F19 LCD
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 4MB/s
    Quote Originally Posted by Clunk
    just my 2p/metre.

  16. #16
    Syd
    Syd is offline
    Hanging on the Edge Syd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    1,636
    Thanks
    69
    Thanked
    32 times in 29 posts
    • Syd's system
      • Motherboard:
      • EVGA 760 Classified / MSI P35 / gigabyte gaming 7 1150
      • CPU:
      • I7 920@3.8 / E8400 / 4790k
      • Memory:
      • 18GB Dominator DDR3 1600 / 4GB / 16GB GSill
      • Storage:
      • 2 x Samsung 830 256/ 120GB Vertex 2 / Sam840's/ Sam SM951
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 690GTX on Water/IGP/ 980ti
      • PSU:
      • AX860/1250w Seasonic
      • Case:
      • TJ07 / PCV700
      • Operating System:
      • 7 64/ 10 64
      • Monitor(s):
      • NEC 3090 + Dell 2405PW
      • Internet:
      • Sky Fibre
    OK, prior to my current occupation I worked for a Nationwide audio specialist for 5 years.
    In that time I had a good proportion of every dat to experiment, listen, read, listen and listen. I became slightly obsessional ending up with cables costing as much as the average
    joe's HiFi system. Yes I beleive they did make a difference - but not necessarily an improvement, often different cables would change the sound, ie more low end bass response but witout the high end detail. The most obvioudly different I can remember were Van Den Hull carbon based cables which gave beautifully open midrange but were not as controlled and tight as others in their price range.

    But why criticise people for what they want to do witht their money, it is no different to the PC Geek (a la moi) who upgrades from Pata to Sata hard drive or Pcie from Agp, people benchmark to see that their system is better, isn't using your ears better?????

    I know run a more conservative System nowadays but I still feed My B&W Nautilus speakers with good speaker cable!!!!

Page 1 of 9 1234 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Good Budget Hifi
    By MurphmanL in forum Consumer Electronics
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 22-01-2005, 05:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •