HD4870 or GTX 260?

[this_is_gav]

I don't think NVIDIA inflated prices intentionally by that much. They were making a loss for a lot of the life of the 8800GTs, and given the reports on the GTX2x0s, I'd imagine yields are no better, meaning more losses. But barely anyone is buying GTX2x0s, so they've little choice - it's better selling some stock at a loss or small margin than selling none of it at all. There's no GTX2x0 GX2 on the horizon (at least until they go 55nm, and even then it'll be a struggle) so they won't have the performance crown any more... they're already getting destroyed in the value stakes. It's lose, lose for them. It's damage limitation.

I wouldn't worry too much about the HD48x0 temperature reports. Keep in mind they're core temps, and both ATI and NV had complete control on whether or not they're exaggerated, or even where on the die those sensors are. All that consumers need to know is whether their card is in the limits or not (and they are). By the time that heat leaves the heatsink, it's no-where near the temps that CCC and NV CP are reporting. It's more like 40 or 50c. You're not exactly burning your hands holding it behind the extractions vents on the HD4870 are you...? PSU wires melted because it's routed under your GTX280...? Didn't think so. CPU overclock limited since you installed that HD4850...? Thought not.

[Zhaoman]

the fans on the 4850 and 4870 are running at 15% as default (very strange) giving a load temp of 85C; if you believe what you hear from ppl around the forums, when you bang them up to 65% the load temp comes down to 40 - 45C. Seems like temperature shouldn't be a problem with the 4 series.

[staffsMike]

If I bought one the first thing I would do is slap an arctic cooling accelero on it. Far from single slot but the temps are managed better and with a low spinning 120mm fan attached so is noise.

[rufeo]

looks like a dual slot to me.

If Nvidia had released the GTX260 at the same price as the 4870 i agree i think most people wud have jumped on board and continued sticking with them just to be safe... this is neither here nor there though. They extorted their customers and because of this lost them to the more consumer friendly company

oh my bad, was thinking of the 4850 too much. don't know why..... i agree that the initial prices were on the high side. but now that the prices are coming down i do feel that they are more of an option, one thing i feel thats making people stop considering this is the bad feeling towards nvidia atm.

this may be nvidia's fault, but putting aside hatred for companies or any other bias' then i feel the two cards are almost on even pegging. the 4870 is cheaper but runs far hotter unless you jack up the fans, but then its louder unless you fork out more money on an aftermarket cooler. it also has a more elegant solution in providing audio via hdmi. the gtx 260 is more expensive but runs cooler and idling power is better so in the long term unless everytime you use or comp you're playing a game then it'll save you money on the electricity bill.....

the great thing about all this is that the once ridiculous prices of the gtxs are now coming down. the two cards are similar in performance, its the difference in price thats an issue. the nvidia offering does provide some advantages but whether its worth the difference in price is debatable i suppose

[The Asgard]

I don't think NVIDIA inflated prices intentionally by that much. They were making a loss for a lot of the life of the 8800GTs, .

Would be interested in a link/info to back up your claims about them making a loss on the 8800GT's?

Really do find that hard to believe and apart from you I have never seen this stated anywhere. I'm sure they made a mint on the GT's

[azrael1]

Would be interested in a link/info to back up your claims about them making a loss on the 8800GT's?

Really do find that hard to believe and apart from you I have never seen this stated anywhere. I'm sure they made a mint on the GT's

I was under the same impression that nvidia mades tons of money on the 8800 gtxs and kept prices very high for a while as they had no competition

[this_is_gav]

It was all over the internet a few weeks after G92 came along. They were reported to be getting dire yields. No idea what it's like now, but given GTX280, yield returns must have improved to some extent.

Their entire 65nm process has been panned by pretty much everyone after the original release.

Just do a search for G92 yields. It should return enough results.

We were the winners. The HD3870 wasn't far enough behind NVIDIA for NVIDIA not to have to react. They made a pretty penny when it was first released, but the prices were dropping like a stone when the HD38x0s were dropping in price. ATI may have been backing themselves into a corner, needing those sales, but based on a much more solid 55nm process they weren't hit as hard in that war.

We're seeing it all again with the HD4850 and 9800GTX and HD4870 and GTX2x0. While they're still on that 65nm process, NVIDIA are feeling the crunch. Compared to G80 (90nm!) it's been a disaster. They've accelerated development of the 55nm process for a reason.

[The Asgard]

It was all over the internet a few weeks after G92 came along. They were reported to be getting dire yields. No idea what it's like now, but given GTX280, yield returns must have improved to some extent.

I agree there were yield problems but I don't think they ever made a loss on the G92 based chips. I think they just expected to make more money.

[aidanjt]

How could they have made a loss on the G92 when it had practically no R&D costs, retailed for rediculous prices and had everyone raging ZOMGITPLAYZCRYSIS?

[kalniel]

How could they have made a loss on the G92 when it had practically no R&D costs, retailed for rediculous prices and had everyone raging ZOMGITPLAYZCRYSIS?

Yeild.

[Xoni]

Nice topic here - interesting read!

Whilst I'm not so interested in nVidias' profits and so on, I am one of the HD 4870 owners who may be a little nervous about their purchase.

The temps don't worry me at all - I have a very well aired case - a P180 set up a little differently from default and so far I've noticed no abnormally high temps at all. My X1950XTX has always run a lot hotter than these 4800's anyway.

However, I have recently been getting the black screen issue - and two BSODs on Vista 64 in the last two days. Strangely, the first week I had no such problems - it was only after reading about them on this forum that they started happening! (cue Outer Limits music...).

I was fine on the standard driver - 8.501 - it's the one I had installed anyway, but was on the Sapphire CD that came with the card.

ATi released the 8.501.1 hotfix for 4870's which, wisely or not, I installed and it was after this that the problems started. I have now returned to the standard 8.501 driver but the problem continues.

I'm getting pretty desparate for those new drivers - get your backside in gear, ATi!

PS - I have never felt the need to o/c my graphics cards, only my cpu/RAM/MoBo.

[AdamAnubis]

I'm in a similar boat, I want the HD4870 for teh powerZ but the GTX260 just has the appeal of being more efficent at idle - which i am most of the time. While the HD4870 is cheaper, the GTX260 just makes me want to ahve it

I've not read all 4 pages of this thread (I really cba ), but which has more future proofing? The GTX260 doesn't have as many SP's, which is one thing that puts me off.
GGGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRR so many choices!

[Xoni]

I forgot to mention - for those in the know - that the exact file that caused the BSODs was atikadmg.sys

btw - I also had initially intended buying the GTX 260 - but then chose the 4870 on the strength of the many reviews out for both 4800 cards.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

the 260's are just shy over £200 now and the cheapest 280 is £270+ from SCAN. jesus these cards aint even been out for a month and the price has fallen stupidly fast. looks like the credit crunch can benefit us . as of now, there are some man bargains not jus in the tech world but in clothes. today in the NEXT shop it was packed!!

im gunna try and persuade my bro to get a 260 or 4850 for his pc which has a 500+W psu, E6300 oc to 2.2ghz and 1gb ram hehe. might make a new thread about it soon. stay tuned

[ajfoord]

hi guys im new here i need help with fps on cod4 , i average 30-60 and when ANYTHING happens ,gunfire etc it gets jumpy as hell ?? heres my comp
AMD ATHLON 64X2 DUAL
CORE PROCESSOR 6400+
3.25GHZ, 3.25GB OF RAM
1 GIG NVIDIA GE-FORCE 8500GT

i would have thought it would run fine

[AdamAnubis]

8500GT < There's your problem. It's not designed really for gaming.