Anyone Know When The Next Gen Nvidia Cards Are Being Released

[Tact.X]

Basically what is said in the article is this:
1.)Nvidia has a dedicated PhysX unit or is allocating more resources in the GPU to PhysX
2.)Certain games will take advantage of these optimisations and offer performance better than an HD7970
3.)However,in most other games it is slower than Tahiti. This either means performance around HD7950 level or lower.

Concerning 2 &3, that's a big risk to take. Because all the time the 7900's are out there, the more money nvidia looses... And it needs to beat the 7900's to make it worth buying them... so come on Nvidia! get out a great card, using lower power, cooler and giving greater performance than last time, not asking for much am I?

[kalniel]

7950 IS tahiti - if it's slower than Tahiti then it's slower than the 7950. The article mentions being beaten by pitcairn as well - that's the 7870/50 range.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

You've misunderstood the article. It says there isn't likely to be dedicated PhysX hardware at all, but the marketeers will try to spin it as having it. Without code in games to specifically target (generic shader) accelerated APIs Charlie thinks gk104 is going to suck quite badly, even loosing to AMD's mid range cards (that's the 7870 and 7850, not the 7950).

7950 IS tahiti - if it's slower than Tahiti then it's slower than the 7950. The article mentions being beaten by pitcairn as well - that's the 7870/50 range.

I read through the article again - your right(I only skimmed through it).

The HD7950 1.5GB and the HD7800 series are also meant to be launching this month too.I suspect the Pitcairn GPUs will be quite small.

[ik9000]

i think this is very healthy for the GPU industry whatever else it is or isn't I like the fact that AMD and NVidia actually slog it out like this. If only it were true for AMD and Intel CPUs

[Domestic_Ginger]

From what I understand it seems both architectures are moving to a kind of middle ground. NV have thier higher yields and ATI have better compute/tesselation. People are going to moan about NV drivers now making thier card pants in some games; something ATI owners have had for ages!

[kalniel]

i think this is very healthy for the GPU industry

Well if Charlie is right then it's not healthy at all - we are moving towards having games coded specifically for one card manufacturer at the great expense of the other. That means you're effectively cutting off some titles from being played if you chose one manufacturer, and is the opposite of what directX and other standardised APIs are meant to bring to the table.

We could end up with batman titles requiring an nVidia card (physX) and iD titles requiring an AMD card (PRT).. that's not what the PC gaming industry needs right now.

[DanceswithUnix]

Well the better Physix support seems like a reasonable thing. I mean, if their architecture is now better at Physix, then surely there is a whole class of similar GPGPU problems that it suddenly handles better as well?

That makes the idea of dedicated Physix unit seem dumb, this surely must be an architecture enhancement present in each of their cores.

[kalniel]

Well the better Physix support seems like a reasonable thing. I mean, if their architecture is now better at Physix, then surely there is a whole class of similar GPGPU problems that it suddenly handles better as well?

Unfortunately that's very unlikely. You just have to look at the performance difference between how their previous cards handled physX and how they handled other compute operations - AMD cards trample all over them in most compute benchmarks, only to be resoundly beaten when it comes to PhysX. IF what charlie is saying is true, these cards are going to be even more weighted away from useful power and towards proprietary accelerations only.

[Phage]

Unfortunately that's very unlikely. You just have to look at the performance difference between how their previous cards handled physX and how they handled other compute operations - AMD cards trample all over them in most compute benchmarks, only to be resoundly beaten when it comes to PhysX. IF what charlie is saying is true, these cards are going to be even more weighted away from useful power and towards proprietary accelerations only.

I'm getting a bit lost now.
So - NV will outperform in Physx games only ? Why is the Tahiti peformance in BF3 so poor ?

[scaryjim]

Why is the Tahiti peformance in BF3 so poor ?

The game engine has an AMD code path that's specifically tailored towards high performance on a VLIW architecture. The calls don't run anywhere near as efficiently on GCN. Apparently if you trick the game into running the nvidia codepath on Tahiti it runs much better. So it's basically running a poorly optimised codepath on the AMD cards. It *should* be easy to patch, really... just run the other codepath if the game detects a Tahiti card. Presumably it's being delayed by "testing"...

[krazy_olie]

I probably need to read it again but bare in mind that we are comparing Nvidia's high mid chip to AMD current flagship so in most circumstances I would expect it to be slower anyway, if it outperforms it in some games then it's a boon for owners.

Having a game optimised for your architecture is one thing and don't have much issue but if that results in worse performance for the other it's a bit worrying.

What I think we'll see is a card that for some games sits where you would expect it to and others where it punches above its price point.

As for dedicated Physx hardware highly unlikely you'll have an entirely separate module, essentially it's a pipeline so yes there will be hardware specifically for it, but propagated throughout the chip.

[jigger]

I think all the big players in the PC industry should have a summit and put an and to the BS.

Pushing detrimental priority technology like physX in an industry based on cooperation makes no sence at all.

PhysX should have been dropped years ago IMO. AGEIA only created the PhysX brand to sell it! Anyone remember the Ghost Recon PhysX equals false saga?

[kalniel]

I'm getting a bit lost now.
So - NV will outperform in Physx games only ?

Not sure if it's nV in general, but the assertion is that the GK104 (specifically at the moment) will outperform in PhysX games only.

Why is the Tahiti peformance in BF3 so poor ?

Covered well by scaryjim. 'Just' needs the devs to patch the game, though how much they're allowed to is another matter.

I think all the big players in the PC industry should have a summit and put an and to the BS.

Pushing detrimental priority technology like physX in an industry based on cooperation makes no sence at all.

Agreed. But a proud company like nVidia doesn't have much else to go on apart from GPUs. Maybe if tegra could give them some security they could work to promote PC gaming across the board again - as it stands it sounds like they've lost the console contracts as well.

[shaithis]

Problem is developers....

They still do not seem to be using OpenCL enough.

Add in that many (most) titles these days are console ports.....and there really isn't much momentum to change the current situation.

Perhaps if XBox 720 has some kind of open standard physics API (or at least one that is mappable to OpenCL), then we may start seeing a shift.

Until then, it seems that nothing will replace Physx....not that it's a big deal as hardly anything uses it anyway!

Really would be great if devs started to make their games run better on many PCs by off-loading "physics" calculations to second gfx cards or IGPs using an open standard.

Only consoles are allowed to get that much optimisation

[kalniel]

Problem is developers....

They still do not seem to be using OpenCL enough.

When the graphical developers are provided by nVidia there's little incentive for that...

Perhaps if XBox 720 has some kind of open standard physics API (or at least one that is mappable to OpenCL), then we may start seeing a shift.

Well, they have the same physics APIs that are accessible to the PC (havok, bullet etc.) can't really see them/AMD creating another competing one.

[DanceswithUnix]

Latest rumours...

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/25...ineup-revealed