QOTW: How do you feel after the EU referendum?

[TooNice]

What I've noticed recently about the young is:- many\few are saying "I am European\EU citizen" yet if IIRC it was once "I am a citizen of the world"...h'mm well

I avoid using that term because it sounds a bit grandiose, and unlike the EU, there are no passports that allows you to live -everywhere- in the world.
But I do have family on 5 continents. I have lived (not just as a tourist) in a dozen countries, and visited about three dozens. As far as identity is concerned, I am squarely a TCK.
And yes, I wish for not only for a more united Europe, but a more united world where we can accept each other. I struggle to understand why some people prefer to be divided than united.

[excalibur2]

What, like the last 40 years? I think this is one thing that tipped some people in favour for Leave; it was for me.

If we could have voted for no more change, everything staying the same, then I would probably agree just because of human nature more than anything else. But history shows this hasn't, and almost certainly, will not be the case. And when the EU makes little changes here and there, and we don't get the vote, it just builds up more resentment amongst the public (via the media and probably politicians themselves). I know people mentioned the referendums that a couple of countries had for the Lisbon treaty (Denmark and Netherlands?), but I haven't researched into the exact implications of the results, so apologies for the generalisation here: I think those countries voted against it and I believe won some concessions, but it wasn't exactly an "options" list for which parts of the EU you can or can't agree to (for better or for worse). If there was a fairly big change in the future, and we did vote against it, it may be that Leave would "win" and we end up here again anyway.

I also think that it is obviously a lot easier to see the some of the flaws of the results of Leave now, but it would be 5-10 years down the line before you could start to point out some of the flaws of the possible long term effects of the campaigns (EU army, Turkey joining for better or for worse etc.). By then, any information about these will be in hind-sight and I am sure people now would say that didn't see it coming, and others will say "the signs were here". I fully expect some of these posts in these referendum threads to get quoted in a few years' time with "Told you so!"

Interesting to know that if we do leave the EU and after say 5 years we don't like out can we just join again....come to think of it, all the EU countries could try in and out and would be very disruptive so there must be some rule\article for this situation.

[excalibur2]

I avoid using that term because it sounds a bit grandiose, and unlike the EU, there is no passport that allows you to live -everywhere- in the world.
But I do have family on 5 continents. I have lived (not just as a tourist) in a dozen countries and visited about three dozens. As far as identity is concerned, I am squarely a TCK.

Well I was just thinking (well trying to get into a young person's mind ) that in leaving the EU it would seem you are more likely to call yourself a world citizen than in a closed shop like the EU.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Well I was just thinking (well trying to get into a young person's mind ) that in leaving the EU it would seem you are more likely to call yourself a world citizen than in a closed shop like the EU.

Nope,because being in the EU means visa free access and an easier ability to work in another country,which is probably the "ideals" of a "world citizen".

[excalibur2]

That's one of the problems in the referendum in that the young voted different to the oldies...I would never consider myself to be a EU or world citizen.

[Corky34]

It also shows an increasing disconnect between different parts of the country - seen comments about London and a number of home counties on the interwebs being in a bubble and disconnected,and how unfair it is they get all the investment....

What makes those comments even stranger is that the most deprived area in the UK is just 80 miles from the center of London in one of those home counties.

But history shows this hasn't, and almost certainly, will not be the case. And when the EU makes little changes here and there, and we don't get the vote, it just builds up more resentment amongst the public (via the media and probably politicians themselves).

The same criticism can be leveled at the UK political system though, we don't get a say when the UK makes little changes here and there, and we don't get the vote, we elect representatives that vote on those changes for us, and we can throw them out every 5 years be they in the EU or the UK, we done so in every GE since we joined the EU, Thatcher started out with a Europhile stance, she wanted more integration with the EU, Labour at the time was Eurosceptic and wanted less, we, the UK public voted for more integration and they (the then government) enacted our wishes and voted accordingly, including signing us up to the Schengen Agreement,Single European Act, and the Maastricht Treaty, then we elected a similarly Europhile Blair government who signed the Amsterdam Treaty on our behalf.

Basically if we didn't want our governments to vote for changes that resulted in higher levels of integration then would shouldn't have elected governments that said that's what they'd do.

[Tetragons]

Gutted, Sadly, I feel a place that felt like a home and ive been working here for nearly the last 20 years just told me to get lost, im not sure where I belong now.
I kinda hope it was meant to be more a protest vote against the widening divide between the rich and the poor in the Uk.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Gutted, Sadly, I feel a place that felt like a home and ive been working here for nearly the last 20 years just told me to get lost, im not sure where I belong now.
I kinda hope it was meant to be more a protest vote against the widening divide between the rich and the poor in the Uk.

Don't feel that way - 48.1% of people who voted have said we are OK with you being here. If you live in the largest cities or Scotland even more feel that way. So don't feel disheartened.

BTW,the protest vote last elections was for the Tories,so does that mean people are protest voting against the protest vote they made?? So are they now protesting against themselves??

[TooNice]

Well I was just thinking (well trying to get into a young person's mind ) that in leaving the EU it would seem you are more likely to call yourself a world citizen than in a closed shop like the EU.

I am probably not even that young, depending on where you stand, but I will explain my point of view

I see two aspects: the first one is legal, and second one is your personal identity. The legal one, is basically your nationality/nationalities. You do not get to choose that one. A British citizen who emigrated to China during the first year of his life will still be British his whole life, provided that he doesn't renounce his British citizenship. Your identity though is pretty much whatever you want/feel. It could Londoner or it could be World citizen or anything in between. In the former example, there's a fair chance that our British citizen would identity himself as Chinese, especially if he didn't grow up in an ex-pat bubble.

I consider EU citizenship to be closer to a regular citizenship than just a personal identity a Londoner, or a world citizen neither of which offer any special rights. EU citizenship grants you certain legal rights that non EU citizens do not have. Apparently, there are even EU embassies (I admit that I've never been to one). So to me, it means that people can legally be British/EU citizen, while identifying themselves as a World citizen (or Londoner, English, British only, etc.).

[scaryjim]

... BTW,the protest vote last elections was for the Tories,so does that mean people are protest voting against the protest vote they made?? So are they now protesting against themselves??

If the Leave vote was a protest (and it's certainly possible that a degree of it was, whether that's enough to make up the difference in the result or not) there's no reason to assume that it was made by the same people who protested by voting Conservative previously. More than 75% of the electorate didn't vote Conservative at the 2015 general election, so there's plenty of people out there who might want to protest against the Conservatives.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

If the Leave vote was a protest (and it's certainly possible that a degree of it was, whether that's enough to make up the difference in the result or not) there's no reason to assume that it was made by the same people who protested by voting Conservative previously. More than 75% of the electorate didn't vote Conservative at the 2015 general election, so there's plenty of people out there who might want to protest against the Conservatives.

Remember,only around 30 million people bothered to vote in the last general election,and half of those voted Conservative and UKIP. In my estimation by extension plenty of those who bothered to vote also would have voted in this referendum anyway.

But then there are those who voted the Tories in greater numbers than the previous one as a protest against people like the Lib Dems. However,I find it quite interesting going from the last few general elections about the figures saying a decent number of civil servants voted for the Tories,even though the same Tories are probably going to make a lot of those very jobs redundant. The same goes with UKIP who had called people on benefits scroungers and were supportive of workfare programmes,and they had millions of votes.

[peterb]

A British citizen who emigrated to China during the first year of his life will still be British his whole life, provided that he doesn't renounce his British citizenship.

I don't think you can legally renounce British Citizenship. I once met an American civil servant who was born in Scotland. He was required to take American citizenship and swear the allegiance bit and renounce Any other citizenship before taking up post. Thee first was easy, but when he applied to renounce UK citizenship, he was told that there was no mechanism to do it.

Born a Brit, always a Brit.

[Corky34]

I think renouncing British Citizenship became a thing in 2013.

[CasioJones]

I voted to stay in because i did not expect there to be a viable plan to exit. I have heard from a lot of people who said if they knew there was no exit plan they would have voted differently.

[peterb]

I think renouncing British Citizenship became a thing in 2013.

Thank you.

Looks as if you can now, but only if you are a dual national or wish to become a national of a regime that doesn't permit dual nationality. You can't become Stateless. Interesting reading the conditions to regain UK nationality - it isn't necessarily automatic.

[TooNice]

Thee first was easy, but when he applied to renounce UK citizenship, he was told that there was no mechanism to do it.

Hmm... I would be surprised if that was the case, but to be fair haven't looked into it enough to be sure.

Edit: Oops, took too long to reply. But yeah, my Google-fu would indicate that Americans can renounce their citizenship and end up stateless, but I can't think of many instances where it's desirable. Without a passport, I am not sure how you could enter another country, except perhaps as an asylum seeker, but then you'd probably have to become citizen of that country.

Since I have little desire to become a civil servant, and have a desire to live in various countries, multiple-citizenship is more appealing than no citizenship