They ARE watching what you download.

[TheAnimus]

What nonsense. Caught by who? Are they going to 'catch' the thousands/millions downloading TV shows everyday? No.

No, but people buy lottery tickets.

[Agent]

HEXUS can report that BitTorrent traffic is being monitored. We know that this isn't new to some of our USA readers. The difference here is that we have had a report that a user of UK ISP Pipex has been contacted over downloading “unlicensed copies of copyrighted computer programs”...

Read more in this Headline.

This has been known for years though, whats new about this ?
A search on bbc.co.uk/news for "filesharing" shows cases from around 2004 at a quick glance, maybe before with a little more searching

[Lord_Itchybum]

I think what most people are forgetting is that no matter where you download from or what you download it all passes through your ISP's gateway and anything that goes through there can be monitored and tracked to your IP. Even if it is encrypted. Remember anyhitng that can be encrypted can be decrypted. It may take a bit of time but it can be done.

All these private trackers, VPN's etc are all well and good but eventually you will be caught out. The only way to be 100% safe would be to use a closed network that does not pass through an ISP, eg using dial up and connecting to a modem at the other end or using a company intranet.

Take it from me, I know. I work in IT and have had to deal with people trying to download stuff through the company network or using Proxy sites to access inappropriate material. It goes through my servers and I WILL find out about it. Same goes for ISP's and illegal file sharing.

[dangel]

...but ISPs have no interest in stopping filesharing. They only act when forced to be third parties.

An IP address showing someone connected to a tracker means zip - you need to demonstrate exact knowledge of how much and what they downloaded and also that it was that person (not, say, someone who hacked into your wireless lan lol).

If you're selling pirated goods on then worry - that makes it much easier to track and nick you.

[badass]

I think what most people are forgetting is that no matter where you download from or what you download it all passes through your ISP's gateway and anything that goes through there can be monitored and tracked to your IP. Even if it is encrypted. Remember anyhitng that can be encrypted can be decrypted. It may take a bit of time but it can be done.

All these private trackers, VPN's etc are all well and good but eventually you will be caught out. The only way to be 100% safe would be to use a closed network that does not pass through an ISP, eg using dial up and connecting to a modem at the other end or using a company intranet.

Take it from me, I know. I work in IT and have had to deal with people trying to download stuff through the company network or using Proxy sites to access inappropriate material. It goes through my servers and I WILL find out about it. Same goes for ISP's and illegal file sharing.

For someone that works in IT you dont seem to know how both encryption and how the internet works.
1. If you use a proper encrypted connection from one node to another using either SSL, TLS, IPSEC with AH/ESP or PPTP provided your keys are good enough, the encrypted traffic cannopt be read. The only realistic way to read the traffic is to compromise either node. Brite force attacks take too long.
2. Whether trafic passes through your ISP's gateway or not is completely irrelevant. Unless you are using a proxy, your IP address is easily found out since it is in every single packet you send and recieve.
3. Using your logic on VPN's, the modem argument is rubbish aswell. Its a lot easier to tap into modem to modem comms than it is to crack the encryption on a decent encrypted connection.

[[GSV]Trig]

I only really download TV stuff...
When NTL send me a letter or email telling me to stop then I will.

Probably.

[kalniel]

I agree partially with the music downloading (ie if you pirate an album that's sold over half a million copies, then it's morally ethical - the singer has probably made enough not to worry about the piracy),

Completely disagree. Since when is it ok to steal from someone just because they will survive without whatever it is you steal?

Games i agree, are reasonably priced. But only the single player ones. I have no quarms whatsoever with people who download MMO's to play on private servers (making people pay for the game and then charging them extra for playing it is piracy in itself imo), because tbh they're not making a dent in the company profits (no server costs, etc.)

Again completely disagree. Just because you don't think something is value for money it doesn't make it right to steal it instead. And the 'not denting company profits' argument is no reason either - firstly the costs are about developing a game - cash from sales recoup that cost and without it they wouldn't develop games in the first plcae - secondly patches and ongoing development cost money, and thirdly even if you don't think there are material costs to pirating a game, you are denying the company the money they would have got if you had legally bought it. It's every bit as bad as stealing and it's a real shame that in this privaledged country we even have people who think it's ok.

What's the law about downloading tv shows that are recorded from the tv? e.g i've got QI in "easy listen" form on my mp3 player - and it's clearly not a DVD rip because you can hear the BBC2 next program announcement at the end of each episode

It's also illegal unless the owner has waived copyright or provided that show for download themselves. There is probably a 'fair use' exception that allows clips etc.

[Topboy]

The cant do anything at all.

They need to prove that you as a person is using the IP being used to download.

Just because they can proove the IP is associated to you Internet account does not mean you as a person were downloading the data in the first place.

Until they can prove the actual person is downloading, no court of law will prosecute due to lack of evidence.

This also applies to ISP's. They cannot terminate service with you as a person just because some organisation sniffed a certain type of data on your alleged IP. Never heard of IP spoofing people...

Topboy

[Whiternoise]

...but ISPs have no interest in stopping filesharing. They only act when forced to be third parties.

An IP address showing someone connected to a tracker means zip - you need to demonstrate exact knowledge of how much and what they downloaded and also that it was that person (not, say, someone who hacked into your wireless lan lol).

Exactly, how much time, money and server power would an ISP have to expend just to catch a few kids who want the new 50 Cent album? (too much )

Plus, i go back to what i said earlier - (i'm assuming that timestamps negate this) what about all those folk on AOL who have rotating IP addresses (plays havoc when setting up game servers i can tell you..)

@Kalniel - fine, i'll back down about the music, but the RIAA (to name one example) shouldn't be as tight reigned as they are.

But i still am completely against subscription games, while many people will play the games because they are good games (i don't doubt that they are) it's still morally unethical to charge people ridiculous sums of money each month to play. Do the maths, if 5 million people play Wow, each paying an average of about £5 a month, then Blizzard are earning £25m EACH month. Are you telling me that game developers, admin, etc. get paid upwards of a million a year?

Fine, you have to pay startup costs, but what is that to Blizzard? They've already made their millions, and they would have easily covered the costs of production even if they charged everyone £1 a month. I don't know, maybe they should give you a yearly license (like AV apps). I'm not saying i personally pirate games, but what if you can't afford the money? Subscriptions are also pretty bad in that they encourage you to play enough to get your money's worth. I have Guild Wars - and somehow they manage to live on people just paying once.. they update pretty much all the time and there are massive expansions released often enough. So answer me why Blizzard need the subscription charges? (i'm not trying to be sarcastic, just it's a genuine question)

I'm critising WoW simply because it's the game that most people play/can relate to. It's an interesting argument with regards to subscriptions on a game to game basis. For instance, Archlord has recently become pay once, and the only logical reason for that that i can think of is that people are not willing to pay monthly (ie not enough turnover). One of the only counter arguments for WoW subscriptions that i find viable is their updates. Other games that do not - or those that just seem to be jumping on the band wagon so to speak - shouldn't be allowed to charge.

The thing about pirating to play on a private server is perfectly reasonable imo, if you played say Lineage or something and played it on a 3rd party server, and you thought it was amazing, then most sane people would consider buying the game to get the benefits of the constant updates.

I may have overstated my actual feelings in the last post - i don't think it's "ok", but i do sympathise with people who do.

Hmm didn't know about the TV show thing, but i think that if i've recorded it from the television (which we pay a license for) onto a DVD and i've then ripped the sound, it's perfectly reasonable. Since there is seemingly no problem with VCR recording, then that should transfer to audio as well. Providing i'm not trying to make money out of it or broadcast it publicly around the internet or whatever, then that's fine in my book, you may have differing views on the whole TV recording thing, but thats the end of the matter to me.

[Splash]

Ok, I'll admit it. I have in the past downloaded music. If I like it I have then gone out and bought the CD.

I know this makes me a criminal, but it's also led to many albums being bought that I wouldn't have done - I have had my eyes opened to all kinds of music since the MP3 revolution, bands I just wouldn't have heard on the radio (not that I've really listened to the radio in quite some time now).

I've been a musician too (sadly it came down to the age old "proper job"/not enough time situation a while back) and I know that for the unknown artist it's more important to get your music heard than to make the money off it - the foot in the door, so to speak. In the past I have happily given away CDs, free MP3 downloads from websites etc so that people will get to hear the music, those people who like it can then come back and buy t-shirts, more CDs etc etc etc.

Again, I know it's legally wrong, but I think the legal and moral grounds here stand quite a distance apart.


And no, I haven't downloaded the latest Robbie Williams. Partially because I don't need exposure to his sounds but mostly because it probably blows.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Yea this whole idea of MMORPG's is a complete rip off has others mentioned above and this is one of the reasons why pirate copies exists.

[greektony]

Splash, i think the phrase you were looking for is:

And no, I haven't downloaded the latest Robbie Williams. Partially because I don't need exposure to his sounds but mostly because it probably sucks monkey balls

hehehehe

[Whiternoise]

Isn't moral debating fun?

[5lab]

afaik the companies involved are doing nothing as clever as packet sniffing. they're getting a torrent from a website, and loading it into their client. they are then recording the ip address of anyone who they download from, resolving that address and sending a letter to your isp (who sends it onto you). encrypted clients wouldnt help an iota. i believe they can prosicute based soley on this, in the same way that the police can do you for your car speeding - if you refuse to say who was driving you get nailed for a different (and often more serious) offence - the same might well apply for downloading - failing that they can (without your knowledge) get a warrent, go round your house, take your pc and check its contents. its unlikely, but it HAS happened in the past.

i don't know what part of this story is newsworthy in the slightest. its just that another publisher has got onboard and started sending letters out

[Splash]

Yea this whole idea of MMORPG's is a complete rip off has others mentioned above and this is one of the reasons why pirate copies exists.

I didn't think I could ever justify paying for a game in a shop and then again on a monthly basis. Then I discovered WoW.


If you're happy to play on your own then that's fine - I personally can't see the point in buying an MMORPG and playing it on a pirate (ie unsupported, hardly populated, no frequent updates) server.

[fisnik]

Have never heard before of any ISPs actually sending warning letters to their customers. Are they doing this to anyone or just the heavy uploaders?