Quorn mince - any good?

[Rave]

Quorn mince is edible, but I can't see the point unless you actually are vegetarian. I'm sure it's not much more healthy than lean steak mince, if healthyness is measured in fat content. Personally I think worrying about fat is pointless, worry about your total calorific intake not exceeding the calories you use instead. A bit of fat in your diet is good anyway, they taught me at school that 25% of your calories should come from it, I.E. it should form about 12% of your total diet. I buy the cheap mince a) because it's cheap and b) because I think it's tastier. It's easy to drain some fat off once you've fried it off with the onions.

[htid]

Quorn mince is edible, but I can't see the point unless you actually are vegetarian.

Yeah very true. Im vegetarian for moral and ethical reasons though so im glad quorn exists! Although i don't like mince anyway, but the other Quorn is good imo.

[Rave]

I've read in various places that some (maybe all) Quorn is grown using albumen from battery farmed eggs. If you're a vegetarian for moral and ethical reasons I'd say you shouldn't be eating Quorn. I'm not a veggie but I don't buy it for that reason.

We had some Asda 'chicken style' pieces the other day which I think are soya based; they made some nice fajitas.

[schmunk]

I've read in various places that some (maybe all) Quorn is grown using albumen from battery farmed eggs. If you're a vegetarian for moral and ethical reasons I'd say you shouldn't be eating Quorn. I'm not a veggie but I don't buy it for that reason.

Quorn's uptake in the vegetarian market was hampered by the use of battery eggs in its production process, a practice opposed on ethical grounds by many vegetarians. For this reason, the Vegetarian Society initially did not approve these products. Working with the Vegetarian Society, Marlow began phasing out battery eggs in 2000, and by 2004 all Quorn products sold in the UK were produced without battery eggs, earning the seal of approval of the UK branch of the Vegetarian Society

It seems like they've stopped using battery eggs, but even so - a mixture of fungus and egg... blech!

[shelley bda]

When i took over my job as playworker in afterschool club they used to give them stuff like curries and spag bol made with quorn, i remember asking, are any children vegetarian? - no, are any children allergic to anything in it? - no, so i waited until i took over properly then gave them proper mince, and chicken to go in their food, much better for them and cheaper too, even if anyone in my family were veggie i wouldn't give them that rubbish

[Splash]

Just to be awkward I actually rather like it (though vegemince is nicer, the missus doesn't like it) - I'm veggie and the other half isn't. She actually prefers it to meat (as does her sister) for the sake of convenience. It's just handy to have something like that to cook from frozen. I can see why people would find it rank compared to meat, but I think that's why I don't mind it (the difference in taste and texture) since I'm veggie because I don't like meat. Don't like sprouts either, so I don't eat them. Kill all the fluffy bunnies you like for me though...

[htid]

When i took over my job as playworker in afterschool club they used to give them stuff like curries and spag bol made with quorn, i remember asking, are any children vegetarian? - no, are any children allergic to anything in it? - no, so i waited until i took over properly then gave them proper mince, and chicken to go in their food, much better for them and cheaper too, even if anyone in my family were veggie i wouldn't give them that rubbish

Sorry but thats not fair. If i brought my child up to be vegetarian and someone looking after him/her gave them meat knowing full well i didn't want them to have it, that would REALLY make me mad. If they chose to not eat meat you should respect that fact regardless of if you think its rubbish or not.

*edit* Sorry, thought you had said "even if anyone in THEIR family were veggie..." but the point is still kind of relevant.

[Rave]

Sorry but thats not fair. If i brought my child up to be vegetarian and someone looking after him/her gave them meat knowing full well i didn't want them to have it, that would REALLY make me mad. If they chose to not eat meat you should respect that fact regardless of if you think its rubbish or not.

Well, I reckon you should bring up your child to make their own mind up, rather than indoctrinating them. There are plenty of moral arguments in favour of eating meat.

Sorry about the incorrect quorn info though.

[TeePee]

Interesting trivia: Quorn originates from a fungus that was first found growing on a gravestone in Marlow, Buckinghamshire.

Tasty.

[shelley bda]

Sorry but thats not fair. If i brought my child up to be vegetarian and someone looking after him/her gave them meat knowing full well i didn't want them to have it, that would REALLY make me mad. If they chose to not eat meat you should respect that fact regardless of if you think its rubbish or not.

*edit* Sorry, thought you had said "even if anyone in THEIR family were veggie..." but the point is still kind of relevant.

Thank you for having a go at me before you'd read my post properly

I couldn't care less if anyone in the family were veggie! it's not them i am taking care of, i'm only interested in the childrens dietery requirements and what the parents wishes are, and i can't see where your point is relevant? revelant to the thread? or to my post?

I agree with Rave, it should be the childrens decision, it's not fair to enforce your own beliefs etc onto them, children need a balanced diet which includes meat

*Sorry for being off topic

There is only 1 time when i didn't comply with parental wishes and that was where the Mum had enforced this really weird diet on her little boy ( she was on this organic thing for her mood swings ) she'd provide him with a ricecake and an orange, that was his tea
( actually it was what was left over from his Lunch ) now i'm sorry but that's not the healthy diet a 6 year old should be having, that's on the verge of starvation, i'd ask him if he'd eat when he got home, no he said it's time for bed as soon as he got home so i'd give him tea, typically pasta or potatoes, and yoghurt/mousse for pudding, imho his health was being compromised so that was more important to me than her wishes, always waited for her to come and moan but she never did

[htid]

I did read your post properly, i only misread one word, sorry (not being sarcastic, even if it sounds like it)

I said that my point was still relevant because it sounded to me as though you would give the kids meat even if the parent had asked you not too, which i assume is wrong since you now said "i'm only interested in the childrens dietery requirements and what the parents wishes are". So sorry for that too.

The thing that you and Rave said....hmmm, i dont have kids and i never plan to have them but i still think I would give them rules if i did. Sure, they can make up their own minds but as a parent surely im allowed to give them rules to try and bring them up as I see fit? Example: You tell your child that their meal will be ready soon so they cant eat a chocolate bar....would you allow them to eat it anyway because thats the childs decision? If your child went to racial hatred websites, is it alright because it's what the child decided? The 2nd example was extreme, i admit, but still as a parent i think you are allowed to set some rules that you think would help to bring your child up as a better human being - and I think not eating meat makes someone a better human being.

As for a balanced diet needing meat....i haven't eaten meat since i was 7, im now 22 and im perfectly healthy, never been seriously ill, dont take vitamins, so maybe people will say you do need meat, but i personally dont agree.

Rave - I can't think of any moral arguements for eating meat, im not saying you are wrong, but would you care to name some, id be interested to hear.

[Rave]

Rave - I can't think of any moral arguements for eating meat, im not saying you are wrong, but would you care to name some, id be interested to hear.

Sure. First of all there's the argument that humans have eaten meat since before they were even humans (if you see what I mean). Our Hominid ancestors were hunting animals thousands of years ago. Our closest animal relatives, chimpanzees, eat a variety of other animals from termites to monkeys. They, like us, are omnivores, not herbivores. There is even a school of thought amongst those studying our evolution that the concentrated energy and protein that our evolutionary predecessors could only get from eating meat was what turned us into the intelligent animals we are today, by allowing our brains to get as big as they are. Brains need a lot of power to run. In a modern society like ours there's no longer a need to eat meat as you yourself obviously demonstate, but the same is not true anywhere. Animals can turn rough grass (which humans can't eat) into meat (which they can), which could be the difference between starvation and survival in (say) the African bush. In general, farming animals is far less 'efficient' in terms of nutrition value per hectare than arable farming, but you can't grow crops on (say) a steep hillside, whereas sheep will be quite happy.

Then there's the argument that many species of animals themselves do not particularly seem to mind being eaten. When people first started domesticating animals, they did not bother to fence them in, rather they tended to travel around with the animals happily in tow. The animals themselves could have wondered off, but they chose not too, choosing to trade the safety and comfort of being fed and looked after by humans for the chance that they could be killed early and eaten. You could argue that the animals don't understand the nature of the bargain they are entering into, but all my grandad's cows (he was a farmer) saw him take away all their offspring at six months old, and they bore no obvious grudge. This argument doesn't apply in every case of course, because some animals aren't easily domesticated or are farmed against their choice (fish, for example).

Finally there's the simple argument that as a species, humans should put themselves first and every other species second. I don't for a moment approve of deliberate animal cruelty, but I do not believe that a few months/years eating grass in a field followed by being shot in the head is at all cruel. It's a lot nicer than living in a wood being chased by wolves, if you ask me. That would be (in most cases) the alternative.

I consider myself an ethical meat eater. I think that raising chickens in huge sheds, standing around in their own waste with barely any space to move for the 8 weeks it takes to bloat them up to saleable weight by stuffing them with food paste is cruel. Similarly I think that raising pigs in small pens in sheds with no room to lie down or root around isn't on. As a result, I made the decision earlier this year that werever possible I'd only buy organic chicken or pork. You, for whatever reason, are not comfortable with the idea of eating meat, and that's absolutely fine. In the hypothetical case of you having a child though, the child might be, and I believe that they would not be morally wrong if they came to that decision. There are clear cut and obvious reasons why racism, criminality and all the other things you would teach your child not to indulge in are wrong. I do not think that in the case of eating meat the argument is anything like as certain.

Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall makes this argument very eloquently, especially in his book Meat.

[Clingy]

Been a sort of Vege for 20+ years now (eat fish). Raised kids as Vegetarians until around about the age of 12 when my daughter decided to be totally vege and my son decided to eat meat (Thanks in no small part to Nick ). Meal time can often involve 3 different meals.

Of course you should give children the choice when they are able to make their own decisions.....but in how many meat eating households does that happen? Certainly my parents did not give me that choice and my wife had to cook her own meals when she turned Vege. I don't think the racism/criminality comparison is applicable. Perhaps you should compare it with religious choice. How many parents allow their children freedom of religious choice and how many indoctrinate them? How many "brainwash" their kids with their own political views....mmmmm....or even sporting preferences.....oooo..this could be another topic.

I'm not sure the "Our ancestors ate meat so...." holds water. Our ancestors did lots of things that would not be acceptable in a civilised society.

[schmunk]

Our ancestors did lots of things that would not be acceptable in a civilised society.

Like Jazz music...

[Rave]

Of course you should give children the choice when they are able to make their own decisions.....but in how many meat eating households does that happen?

I know of a few- pretty hard to force a kid to eat meat if they've made up their minds not to, and most parents would rather make sure their kids get enough protein rather than watch them starve.

I don't think the racism/criminality comparison is applicable. Perhaps you should compare it with religious choice. How many parents allow their children freedom of religious choice and how many indoctrinate them? How many "brainwash" their kids with their own political views....mmmmm....or even sporting preferences.....oooo..this could be another topic.

Yeah, that's a good comparison. I don't think you should indoctrinate your kids at all, be it in the ethics of eating, religion, politics, etc. My argument doesn't specifically apply to vegetarians, don't worry.

I'm not sure the "Our ancestors ate meat so...." holds water. Our ancestors did lots of things that would not be acceptable in a civilised society.

The point is that biologically we're omnivores. Every other species of omnivore eats meat if they can find it, I don't see why humans should exempt ourselves.

[shelley bda]

Of course you should give children the choice when they are able to make their own decisions.....but in how many meat eating households does that happen?

My son decided to turn vegetarian when he was 11, we let him and respected his reasons for wanting to give up meat, he lasted 3 months before the smell of bacon got the better of him