Phorm - a sign of things to come?

[Sinizter]

They also thought that deleting cookies would prevent this monitoring... I thought that the monitoring is done on the ISP's side

It is according to every other source I have seen on this.

... That probably is just bad journalism (which usually happens when non-tech journalists try to come across as very informed when writing/presenting more technical stuff and they dont have the time or inclination to research it further).



And they made absolutely no mention of the fact that the websites you visit would need to be captured and the data sent to you changed by the ISP to deliver the ads. They didnt make it sound any more invasive or noxious than the standard ads on the internet.

[santa claus]

Your data will be harvested at ISP level. The proposal is that Phorm's hardware will be installed alongside that of participating ISP's (which will be all of them sooner or later unless these proposals are resisted). You will supposedly be able to "opt-out" of monitoring by visiting Phorm's website and retaining the "opt-out" cookie on your pc permanently. Otherwise, and if you delete the cookie, you are automatically "opted-in". This method of "opt-out" is unreliable and why should you need to keep it on your pc anyway?

The Phorm system is being marketted as "improving security and protecting you from phishing". You'd have to be completely stupid to fall for that one. Their PR people are all over the web trying desperately to defend and promote this intrusion.

Wakey, wakey.

[peterb]

Just had a look at Zen's website, where they have stated that they will not (and have no intention of) participating in any marketing activity such as phorm's.

[santa claus]

Just had a look at Zen's website, where they have stated that they will not (and have no intention of) participating in any marketing activity such as phorm's.

A laudable but probably untenable position in the long term. If the big three (VM, Talk Talk and BT) get away with this, there's the danger that smaller outfits will get swallowed up sometime in the future as the juggernaut rolls on. Defections to these smaller ISP's is likely therefore to be of ephemeral benefit and could weaken the voice of rejection to the Phorm plans; but, ask yourself why Zen are rejecting Phorm.

This is just my opinion and I am not trying to force it on anyone. But if you are even remotely concerned about privacy and civil liberty, please read up more about the Phorm proposals on the web. There is nothing in the proposals of any real value to you, but there is a helluva lot for you to lose.

Making an informed decision to do nothing is your choice and much better than the zombie-like acceptance of a technology that will have a huge significance for you in the not too distant future if it is allowed to go ahead.

Thank you for pointing out my inability to spell

You're welcum

[Betty_Swallocks]

To be honest if (and I emphasise IF) what they say in that 4 page interview is true and the data is not only thoroughly scrubbed in the way they described and then discarded immediately then I don't really see what all the fuss is about.

Ads on the internet are here to stay whether you like it or not. There is an ad for MSI motherboards less than 3 inches away from my cursor as I type this. Blocking them is only ever partially successful and is not an option available to less technically literate people.

If we didn't have ads we'd be paying a lot more, not only for our internet access but for membership to forums such as this. Hexus don't run their site for the love of it you know. They, like most other sites, are a business and have to have a revenue stream. If it wasn't ads it would be subscriptions.

If (and again I emphasise IF) this technology can ensure that the ads on pages I visit are more relevant to my interests and reduce the millionth visitor popup ads without compromising the safety of my personal data then I can't see why I should object.

Talk of privacy is in my opinion overrated. We have no privacy in this country these days anyway. I forget what ridiculous number of CCTV cameras we all get captured by each day. It was up in the thousands I'm sure. Your financial transactions are tracked by the banks and data relating to you is sold to junkmail companies all the time. I could go out and buy a targetted mailing list today which may well, depending on what sites you've visited recently, have your email address on it already.

If (there's that word again) this can reduce the amount of untargetted, scattergun approach ads I get subjected to then I'm fine with it. I really don't care about ads on web pages. I've stopped looking at them because I know that they are hardly ever relevant to me. If they were I may actually look at them more and possibly even click on them

To be honest the ads that really piss me off are the ones that Hexus themselves use where random words in a story pop up ads if you're careless enough to move your mouse over them. Get rid of those and you've got my vote straightaway.

[Jay]

the fuss is about the fact that the people who run it used to be spam kings, using viruses and malware. They have noe found a loop hole that allows them to do it with no way for us to stop them. It needs to be stopped ASAP or this is only the start.

[nichomach]

To be honest if (and I emphasise IF) what they say in that 4 page interview is true and the data is not only thoroughly scrubbed in the way they described and then discarded immediately then I don't really see what all the fuss is about....

IMO, whilst the use of the data collected for advert targeting is objectionable, that's not the major issue. What IS is that the collection of the data involves an unlawful interception AND MODIFICATION of communications; under RIPA what the ISPs and Phorm are doing is a crime committed against the users. They can bluster all they want; what they are doing and have already done is illegal.

[SuicidaL]

another forum i use is up in arms over this Linkage

over 160 pages of annoyance aimed at vm, whatever phorm or vm say it's still an invasion of privacy.

mind you, wasn't the same thing mentioned about BF2142 with in game ad's? and that caused a bit of a whiff although that never seemed to have happened.

[santa claus]

To be honest if (and I emphasise IF) what they say in that 4 page interview is true and the data is not only thoroughly scrubbed in the way they described and then discarded immediately then I don't really see what all the fuss is about.

Ads on the internet are here to stay whether you like it or not. There is an ad for MSI motherboards less than 3 inches away from my cursor as I type this. Blocking them is only ever partially successful and is not an option available to less technically literate people.

If we didn't have ads we'd be paying a lot more, not only for our internet access but for membership to forums such as this. Hexus don't run their site for the love of it you know. They, like most other sites, are a business and have to have a revenue stream. If it wasn't ads it would be subscriptions.

If (and again I emphasise IF) this technology can ensure that the ads on pages I visit are more relevant to my interests and reduce the millionth visitor popup ads without compromising the safety of my personal data then I can't see why I should object.

Talk of privacy is in my opinion overrated. We have no privacy in this country these days anyway. I forget what ridiculous number of CCTV cameras we all get captured by each day. It was up in the thousands I'm sure. Your financial transactions are tracked by the banks and data relating to you is sold to junkmail companies all the time. I could go out and buy a targetted mailing list today which may well, depending on what sites you've visited recently, have your email address on it already.

If (there's that word again) this can reduce the amount of untargetted, scattergun approach ads I get subjected to then I'm fine with it. I really don't care about ads on web pages. I've stopped looking at them because I know that they are hardly ever relevant to me. If they were I may actually look at them more and possibly even click on them

To be honest the ads that really piss me off are the ones that Hexus themselves use where random words in a story pop up ads if you're careless enough to move your mouse over them. Get rid of those and you've got my vote straightaway.

Your post is riddled with 'ifs' which you acknowledge. With great respect, I'm afraid you only have a superficial understanding of the potential ramifications of Phorm's intrusive and hopefully illegal intentions.

The link to the cable forum posted by Suicidal is an excellent insight into the possibilities and reaction to this technology and if you have time, take a look. If after that you are still not bothered about your data being harvested and stored on servers in China by a Company previously up to its eyeballs in a spyware controversy could you please send me your bank account details, a recent utility bill, a photograph endorsed by your Doctor and your cheque book. I need to get a new passport for a reindeer and all we need is the identity of a sharing person like yourself. Ta.

Seriously, this is not just about ads. It is about monitoring your internet use and profiling you for targeted ads, but that's a lot of useful information to collect. So yep, the CCTV will film you and the banks know what you spend your money on; we may as well let them know all about our personal and private interests too eh? Doh.

[Output]

BBC NEWS | Technology | Phorm warned about web data rules

According to that, Phorm will have to be opt-in not opt-out - that sounds like very good news to me (especially since there's no way I'm opting-in)

[Agent]

Just come to post the same thing. Great news

[Sinizter]

Good ... Atleast it wont be foisted on people who are completely unaware of it.

[santa claus]

Forgive me, but I remain sceptical. I do not want Phorm as opt-in, opt-out or shake it all about; I just don't want it. Opt-in is the thin end of the wedge. Phorm are hoping that with opt-in the furore against this spyware will drop and therein lies the danger.

Remember the Poll Tax? Remember how the whole Country went berserk with riots and demonstrations? Well, the Poll Tax idea was promptly shelved as a direct result. What happened after that? Ever heard of the Community Charge? It's just the Poll Tax all dressed up.

This is how it will be with Phorm if this insidious spyware is given an inch, it will take a mile. We're being walked over and sleepwalking into giving away our right to privacy.

THINK.

[Sinizter]

I would prefer that Phorm did not exist too ... Unfortunately it does. It doesn't quite look like its ready to slink away and die.

So an opt-in is still better than an opt-out. Maybe people will then realise that they do not add any value and the business will go tits up.

We cant have Phorm declared illegal ... So this is still the first battle won. But the war is just beginning - and they seem to have the edge, time to let people get used to it.

[santa claus]

Fair comment. I think I'm a bit wound up because I see this as a huge issue and, as yet, the majority don't know about Phorm and those who do seem quite passé about the idea. This deal could easily sneak in through indifference *sigh*.

I just have this horrible feeling that by the time it is realised what we have, we won't have it any longer.

[pauldarkside]

Phorm phailing (see what I did there), the Information Commissioner Office states that it should be opt-in

News here.

Balls, just spotted Mattitude's post, sorry