First decent D-SLR: Canon EOS 450d or Nikon D90?

[Bobster]

95% of all the wedding photographs that ive ever edited for other wedding photographers have been Canon..

i think i know 3-4 wedding photographers who use Nikon systems, one just switched from Canon to a Nikon D3 because he wasn't happy with the focusing of his 1D3.. and he's made a $12,000 investment for the change..

i think alot of people get caught up in how many more focus points a system has, all the extra buttons etc, weather sealing etc.. ive had both my 20D's out in the rain with no ill effects to them (ok wasn't torrential)

i also know photographers who previously owned a S3 who moved to Nikon D200's rather than going S5..

[Stringent]

Recently got the D90 upgraded from the D80. Have to say, its one stonking camera. I don't like all the software you have to plug onto your PC for Canon, at least Nikon you plus it in and it recognises it as a USB device. Canon it had to be set up as a scanner or something and run an import of pictures.

Try them both, but my recommendation goes to Nikon.

[Agent]

I don't like all the software you have to plug onto your PC for Canon, at least Nikon you plus it in and it recognises it as a USB device. Canon it had to be set up as a scanner or something and run an import of pictures.

How long ago was this?

The 450D is just another removable USB device like every Canon compact I have ever owned. I also never remember seeing this on a friends 400D either (although I didn't exactly look for it).

I love my 450D - Didn't like the feel / holding of the Nikon at all. No comment other than that though, I'm just a SLR noob

[colmo]

I don't like all the software you have to plug onto your PC for Canon, at least Nikon you plus it in and it recognises it as a USB device. Canon it had to be set up as a scanner or something and run an import of pictures.

It's possible your USB connection was not set to Mass Storage (generic USB device, basically). I suspect a dive into the menus would have fixed the problem. I'm not a Canon shooter, so this is just a guess based on features I've seen on various digicams.

[Ramedge]

I've not even looked on my 50d to see if I can use it as a mass storage device, I am not sure i can. I use a thing called a card reader means I dont have to use up my battery to transfer pictures so i can shoot for longer

[kalniel]

i think alot of people get caught up in how many more focus points a system has, all the extra buttons etc, weather sealing etc.. ive had both my 20D's out in the rain with no ill effects to them (ok wasn't torrential)

I think SLRs are generally quite tough. I was taking photos at sea world on my Minolta a few years ago, supposedly above the 'get wet' line, but the whale decided to soak me anyway. I, and the camera, were absolutely drenched, mid-pose. I thought crap, turned it off, stuck it on a heater when I got home and when it failed to turn on feared the worst.

Actually all that happened was the batteries didn't like being wet and had drained. So after the camera was dried out and new batteries put in it was fine and is still usable today - only lasting damage has been that the screws on the bottom of the camera have a bit of rust on them

[Taz]

Oh dear! I'm still umming and ahhing about this choice. To complicate matters, a friend of mine who a fairly serious photography hobbyist has suggested another possibility that I am now considering.

My budget can extend to a Nikon D90 + kit lens - that is between £715 to £750 at street prices. I have read several reviews on the D90 that the kit lens doesn't truly show the possibilities of the camera. A better lens would be around the £400 to £600 mark.

Now, the Canon EOS 450D body only + good lens is another possibility. I want to be able to take good quality photographs from day one and want to use the full capabilities of the camera. In addition, the £50 rebate from Canon is seriously tempting and would effecitvely allow me to add £50 to my budget.

So, given a budget of say, up to £800 absolute max, which, if any of the combos would you go for:

1. Canon EOS 450d + a reasonably decent lens (better than the kit lens and assuming I can get the £50 rebate)

2. Nikon D90 + standard kit lens

Of those two options, which combination would take better quality pictures straight out of the box? With these I would need to buy a memory card and a bag so that's a fixed cost that i've budgeted for separately.

Again, my primary objective is good quality photos from day one. It would frustrate me enormously to buy a camera knowing that the photos that i'm taking with it are not representative of what the camera is capable of. Moreover, I won't be in a position to buy any more camera gear until late next year.

[Bobster]

450D from play.com = £389.99
that gives you £410 to purchase a couple of lenses
Tamron 10-24mm f3.5-4.5 SP Di II LD £379
Tamron 17-55 2.8 for £269
Tamron 28-75 2.8 for £299
Sigma 10-20mm f4.0-5.6 EX DC £310
Sigma 15-30mm f3.5-4.5 EX DG £199
Sigma 17-70mm f2.8-4.5 DC Macro £210
Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 EX DC Macro £269
Sigma 24-60mm f2.8 EX DG £279
Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 EX DG Macro £305
Sigma 50-150mm f2.8 APO EX DC HSM Mark II £445
Tokina 11-16 mm f2.8 AT-X Pro DX £345
Canon 50mm f1.8 II £79
Canon 18-200mm f3.5-5.6 IS for £418
Canon 24-85mm f3.5-4.5 USM for £299
Canon 28-105mm f3.5-4.5 USM II £199

[Taz]

450D from play.com = £389.99
that gives you £410 to purchase a couple of lenses
Tamron 10-24mm f3.5-4.5 SP Di II LD £379
Tamron 17-55 2.8 for £269
Tamron 28-75 2.8 for £299
Sigma 10-20mm f4.0-5.6 EX DC £310
Sigma 15-30mm f3.5-4.5 EX DG £199
Sigma 17-70mm f2.8-4.5 DC Macro £210
Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 EX DC Macro £269
Sigma 24-60mm f2.8 EX DG £279
Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 EX DG Macro £305
Sigma 50-150mm f2.8 APO EX DC HSM Mark II £445
Tokina 11-16 mm f2.8 AT-X Pro DX £345
Canon 50mm f1.8 II £79
Canon 18-200mm f3.5-5.6 IS for £418
Canon 24-85mm f3.5-4.5 USM for £299
Canon 28-105mm f3.5-4.5 USM II £199

Bob, thanks a lot for this info! Would you be kind enough to recommend a good quality lens for everyday use. I need a lens to start me off that will be good enough to use for 90% of occasions. Then when funds allow I will purchase a macro and a bigger zoom lens, probably some time next year.

With the 450d body taken care of, I'll have about £400 to spend on an everyday lens.

I've also found this page of Canon lenses:

http://bentonvillemall.co.uk/acatalo...om_Lenses.html

But, apart from the prices, the technical data doesn't mean much to me! Which one would be the best everyday lens either from your original list of from the Bentonvillemall site with the main emphasis on picture quality?

[Bobster]

what do you see yourself taking photographs of most?

if its just general run of the mill stuff Tamron 28-75 is a pretty decent bit of glass or the Sigma 24-70
and then you could also grab the 50 1.8 for low light stuff

or you could go for super wide stuff landscapes arty stuff - Tokina 11-16 is an amazing lens

if you're not really sure, splash out that extra 18 and get the 18-200 IS then if you find you shoot more stuff at the zoom side, you know you have to save up some pennies and get a 70-200 or if you shoot more on the wide end, you know you need that Tokina or a fast wide in the 17/18-50 range

[Taz]

Generally I take portraits and scenery shots. I'm assuming all of the ones in your list will work with the 450d with no issues?

[Ramedge]

Generally I take portraits and scenery shots. I'm assuming all of the ones in your list will work with the 450d with no issues?

Yep all those lenses will work with the 450D I believe they are all ef-s compatible lenses? is that correct? I've just moved over to canon so still getting down with the lingo

[Taz]

Here is what I have come up with for my budget (I haven't ordered this yet):

Canon EOS 450D (body only): £389.99
Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di: £254.95
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Lens: £68.94
SanDisk Extreme III SDHC 4GB Card: £13.99
Lowepro Rezo 160 Shoulder Bag: £14.92

GRAND TOTAL: £742.79

Does that sound like a good setup that can hit the ground running and will produce good photographs from day one? Any last-minute changes I should make? I'll budget for a Speedlite flash, one or two more lenses, a spare battery, extra SDHC card, etc, next year. I had a stroke of luck in learning that my Dell monitor can read SDHC cards via its card reader built into the frame.

[kalniel]

Software?

[Taz]

Software?

Anything I should consider?

[kalniel]

Anything I should consider?

Bobster is king of software - I make do with free tools but the results from Adobe Photoshop and the Camera Raw plug-in are very impressive. Lightroom might be a cheaper alternative - I've no idea of the costs.

For reference I use Dng4ps2, Raw Therapee and The Gimp, which are all free - the problem being mostly with the latter only dealing in 8bit colour at the moment.