Christians - A Penny For Your Thoughts.

[TeePee]

Yet you demand scientific proof of the existence of God; and absent that, declare with utter certainty that He doesn't exist.

Because you don't believe in the supernatural, since it is at odds with the idea that everything is either capable of scientific proof or untrue.

It isn't because the supernatural is unproven that science rejects it. Some natural things aren't capable of being proven, but science doesn't reject them. It can still investigate and theorise. The reason the supernatural is rejected is because it can't be investigated. It exists outside of nature.

[nichomach]

So we're back to the basic assertion that if it doesn't fit into your particular view of what constitutes science then it can't possibly exist - the frame of reference problem.

[Bazzlad]

Anyone else think this thread should be renamed:
Christians a penny for you thoughts (and of course should you mention any of them you'll be thoroughly ridiculed?)

Also why are the Science minded so strong on us having to prove it, when they've spent years and still can't disprove it?

[TeePee]

[Devils advocate]
Ok Teepee Mc Scientist answer me this:

1) In the beginning there was nothing.
There had to be nothing, things can't just appear.

2) There was a big bang.
Made of what?

What was there in the beginning, if there was nothing?

Go on Mr Scientist.

My belief states that God is infinite, and thus explains this.

How does your lack of God define this?

[/Devils advocate]

I don't know. Science has some ideas. There's an explanation.

What do you hope to achieve by asking that question? To show I don't know everything? To show science doesn't know everything?

All you've shown is that you aren't really interested in finding out, because you have your religiuous ideology.

And that's exactly what's wrong with religion.

[fuddam]

So, please can you explain the moral of this shocking story of genocide based on a whim? And also, what did the animals do wrong?

it's his creation, not yours.

and he warned and warned and warned people about the consequences of their actions. They chose to ignore Him. Ever tried warning a child that sticking their finger into a light socket aint so healthy?

a small word of warning: you are going to die. yes, tis true. when a person dies is moot if you are determined never to choose God.

One last question for the Christians here - can you please explain why the scientists and Atheists wont be allowed into heaven if it hypothetically does exist?

how can you lump scientists with atheists? VERY wierd conflation. I know many many scientists who are Christians, partic from Oxford, etc etc.

Regarding the atheists: they CHOOSE not to be with God. Consequently, He will not force them to be with Him. He respects their choice. Hell is to be eternally without God.

[Bazzlad]

Do you honestly not read anything in a post except what you want to?

Note "Devils advocate":
In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position for the sake of argument. This practice is generally an instructional technique in which one person argues a position that another is less familiar with, thereby teaching proper argument.

I was showing you, that despite your posts denouncing what I believe, you do NOT know everything.

[fuddam]

Widespread paedophilia in the Catholic Church, to the very highest level, would appear to offer a counter argument to that. Being religious does not make you any more or less moral, because we have the God given gift of free will. (But I agree, that is a reason my friend has given, its more of a moral framework for life, that can be followed even if you don't believe in the virgin birth, etc)

agreed, being religious does not make a person moral. After all, some people are religious about football.

on the other hand, accepting Christ into one's life DOES make a difference, since one invites the Holy Spirit into one's being. Beforehand, He was an outside influence. A sincere Christian cannot but be influenced to a more moral code of existence, a divine one.

Also, remember believing in God's existence does not make a person a Christian, ACCEPTANCE does. Giving Him permission to enter, surrendering to Him. Whole different ball game.

Also, God will apparently punish me if I use my free will to choose not to believe in him\her\it. Hardly seems fair.

no, you will punish yourself. A person who chooses not to be with God is ultimately a masochist of the highest order, since it is choosing never to be completed by the being who created that person. Unfortunately it is often a choice made out of ignorance (of the masochism).

[TeePee]

So we're back to the basic assertion that if it doesn't fit into your particular view of what constitutes science then it can't possibly exist - the frame of reference problem.

What's your view of what constitutes science? Anything that isn't in the bible?

Science has been explaining things which were believed by ignorant people to be supernatural for years. Why do you insist your god must have some other frame of reference?

[Bazzlad]

Well you missed my comment again completely and spotted a paragraph you thought you could form an argument from.

It's called communication. Reading, AND writing. Not I'm right, I'm right, I'm right. I mean, you didn't see me burning my science books at school did you? (At least not until after year 11!)

[fuddam]

That's because God is completely and utterly insane and psychopathic. If he was a real person he would be quickly sectioned under the Mental Heath Act never to see the light of day again. He makes Hitler look like Fred Dibnah.

ibid.

The Bible is a story of the constant pursuit of a people by a loving God, and the consequences for those who choose to ignore his warnings - see finger in plug socket example.

Thats also why the Bible has been constantly rewritten and censored. It's like, "OMG we cant have that in the bible any longer, we are losing credibility. Right then, Thats not the truth anymore, this is whats the truth now". And all the religious people go "Mmmkay".

same old rant. The entire new testament can be confirmed, word for word (bar 11 verses), from it's original writing 30 - 80 years AD. That EXCEEDS any secular historical document on record for mankind's entire history by at least 750 years.

Certain Christian clerics added some scriptures along the way (quick ref puts it at 40 which are generally accepted today) and they are noted in modern translations so as to alert the reader to said accretions

eg Matt 17:21, 18:11; 23:14
Mark 16:9-20 Snakes & poison, resurrection
John 5:4 Angel at pool of Bethsaida
John 7:53 - 8:11 Adulterous woman
1 John 5:7&8 - the Trinitarian formula

Please do some research before making such ridiculous statements. All the earliest manuscripts agree; the older ones exhibit these few accretions. It is therefore simple to discern these alterations, and verify them against the original manuscripts. Corruption? Bah humbug!

[TeePee]

I saw your post. It appeared to add nothing to the argument, so I ignored it and moved on to a more constructive one.

[fuddam]

nothing, its just when they want to be taken seriously and affect the running of the populous, were not in the dark ages and we dont need that crap affecting daily life anymore

yep, that's right. as forementioned, looking after 150,000 orphans discarded by the secular state of China is "crap affecting daily life".

sigh.

[fuddam]

Muslims for instance - same God, slightly different hats = much burning.

nope sorry. Absolutely not the same God.

completely naivety to claim such - no Christian who knows scripture would make such a mistake.

[Agent]

I have a simple question for the religious ones. A simple yes or no answer will suffice.

Can God make an unliftable rock ?

[fuddam]

One thing though - you say you don't believe the Earth is 6000 years old, etc, someone earlier said he was a Christian but didn't accept creation as it is told in the Bible.

How do you decide what bits of the Bible are the word of God, not to be questioned, etc, and which bits you can probably just ignore, and still get a seat in heaven?

Playing a risky game, are you not?

is ALL the Word of God. How one chooses to INTERPRET it, though, is a different matter.

1) look at historical context
2) look at the world around you
3) discuss with learned people
4) look at scriptural context
5) debate
6) the Holy Spirit within

[MadduckUK]

nope sorry. Absolutely not the same God.

completely naivety to claim such - no Christian who knows scripture would make such a mistake.

so is this a different god, or they are worshiping nothing?