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About LinkBacksEconomic Left/Right: -4.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.72
Economic Left/Right: -4.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.72
Not sure how the new uni fees work, but fees are all good imo... If you don't get higher expected income (because you are planning on walking out with a 3rd class pass degree) then you shouldn't go to uni! I don't know you care about your loan repayments so much... especially if you earn as much as you are trying to imply you earn...
Economically, taxes have to be increasing with income (I will be higher rate tax payer when I start work)... This is obvious...
Agree with you on Welfare state, Animus... unemployed benefit should be limited to homeless shelters and free food
Btw: I was really nearer to the middle, right, authoritarian... other graph is fake
You don't see any conflict in the above statements?Originally Posted by TheAnimus
Back on topic:
Apparently I'm a libertarian, slight lefty:
Uni fees are now a total piss take.
All unis pretty much charge (well when i was doing my 'Getting Kids from Deprived Backgrounds Into Higher Edu' malrky 2 years ago) 2,800k per year. The crap ones, give you a rebate of anything they want (some of the really bad ones, 2k).
Economically, taxes have to be increasing with income (I will be higher rate tax payer when I start work)... This is obvious... Why do you need to pay more exponetnailly? The harder you work the harder you get taxed? I like the simplicity of estonia's system.
I know few who think otherwise.
I was attacking the NHS for in-efficeny, and because we dont have hte option to do anything but contribute to it. My money has been sent there, and then i have to top it up for something mundane like a perscription, yet someone who's contributed less, gets it for free, thats not right at all.
Remeber, student loan is afaik THE ONLY loan that isn't regulated by the FSA. Its pegged to base rate in a way no one i know can fathom (working in the investment finance sector, that kinda says something about it). with an intrest that is double the 'base' rate used by the government when they dish out pay rises to their police force. I feal completely duped into paying it off at a rate that is frankly inconvient. (and why should i be forced to pay it off faster, thus generating less revuinue, than someone who's lazy?).
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Theres a difference between paying someone to goto uni, and charging someone to go to a good one.You don't see any conflict in the above statements?
Back on topic:
Apparently I'm a libertarian, slight lefty:
it should be based on academic merrit, not which family you've been lucky enough to be born in.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
Are you saying that you're a repressed minority?
Also, have any of the other major UK political parties stated that they would lower taxes? Even the Tories don't say they would, these days, as they know it's a promise they wouldn't be able to keep.
Thirdly, and it's a big thirdly, a top tax rate of 40% (or 41% if you include NI) is VERY LOW compared to most other western countries.
So, you yourself, would you like to pay less tax? Unless you can determine a sensible way for the country to cost less to run (and as I mention above, nobody else can), who do you want to make your contribution for you?If you say, "hello x on street, would you like to pay less tax, because we will make this other person, y pay it for you" if x is a larger population than y, people say yes, democracy works. And bingo.
People generally act in a selfish manner.
Only if you leave of your own volition, or through misconduct.
That’s great news for you – imagine how much tax you’d be paying if we employed a full complement!NHS dentists are virtually non-existant (thanks mostly to NL policy)
You’re missing the point. You pay the same amount of tax from your first 30k of income as they do. They haven’t got any more to give.Missing the point, if your choosing to earn only 30k, why should you get to pay less for things like the recent example for me again of dentist? Its un-fair and against my principles to charge one person more for health care than another.
Also, how many people do you think are *choosing* to earn 30k (which is, of course, a larger than average wage)? People *are only able* to earn 30k, or less. Or do you think that these people are all shiftless layabouts, who ought to be doing better jobs? I presume you clean your own toilets at work, and drive your own train.
Oh no, if you can’t keep up your £1,200/month mortgage payments, you might have to move to a cheaper property. Oh, the horror…!As i've said i've got a mortgage to keep up, and we don't want to let that slip do we? Interviews as i said, are normally in the morning before the market opens for the kind of work i do, i'm good, but no ones going to bend over backwards to give an interview slot around my un-employed time schedule. Its also cheaper to take the tube, than the bus, if you live with a few changes on the way. (but walking would only take me about 2.5 hours acording to ASK's walking directions).
I’m bored with this post now, and have work to do. You can fill in the rest of my answers yourself.
Fraz (11-02-2008)
Or the company i work for collapses.
Cant you see why its iritating to have to pay so much, and get so little, where as someone who contributes much less, gets much more?
A bloke quit the stress of the trading floor to be a train driver, and earns more than 30k. The money you are paid is a reflection of how much demand there is, that is why grottyer jobs payless. If i was just wiping the arse of kiddies all day long, i'd have a lot less stress thats for sure. (and also a lot less bordom as you have to wait 14.5 minuites for a batch to run which uses up all the CPUs on your dev boxes, because your still waiting on the damn app server you ordered a week ago).
Once again miss the point. The stamp duty we paid, the tax i pay, offers no protection. Where as if i contributed nothing, went and fornicated with my first girl friend (so 7 years, call it 8 children by now?) we'd probably have a house paid for us.
Good, mabye you will stop repressing me
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I don't want to pay for your mother but I still have to....
If you don't like the system of government, why not move somewhere which is more amenable?
You've missed my point - you said:
1) You're bitter about the amount of tax you have to pay
2) You don't believe in hand outs
3) You're bitter that you had to pay for your own education and don't think people should pay for education
If you didn't pay for your education then it would have been a handout. So as others are saying here you are being a hypocrite. There is no such thing as free education - either you pay directly for / towards it or it is 'anonymously' funded by tax payers in general.
Irritating yes but what's the alternative? You want the people who earn less to pay more?
Economic Left/Right: -4.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.15
Strange, came out very far to the left given I tend towards voting Conservative...
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This is bunny and friends. He is fed up waiting for everyone to help him out, and decided to help himself instead!
I'd just sooner see those who contribute nothing removed from the system.
Education should be free, provided it is a valid education, it will pay dividends by letting the person earn more and pay more, it will be an investment, as such is there any need to charge fees that will price poor people out of good institutes. I'm complaining about the student loan co, calculating their contrinbution on net, rather than gross. I would say the easyest way to cut down on money wasted in education, stop pointless 'degrees', and tax people fairly, let me pay it off over a fairer peroid of time, say 10 years, not be hell bent on clawing it back in 3. This would actually allow them to earn more money, as they charge above base for 10 months of the year, i'm very upset with SLC because i feal your conned more than a little into taking the loan. If it was say a car, you wouldn't be allowed to sell them in the fassion the government does.
I've said only that i don't belive in hand outs for those who contribute nothing, most graduates end up contributing a lot, often in more than just financial returns (innovations that improve life etc.)
Ah yes, the old if you don't like it here.... Its intresting because all i was complaining about was the lack of financial liberty.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
Nope, in that situation you'd be entitled to JSA from day one.
You’re saying you’re jealous of the man earning 14k by cleaning toilets 40 hours a week, living in a council flat on a horrible estate, and not being able to afford good food, stylish clothing and exciting holidays/nights out?Cant you see why its iritating to have to pay so much, and get so little, where as someone who contributes much less, gets much more?
One bloke. You’ve got one bloke as evidence for your earlier statement.A bloke quit the stress of the trading floor to be a train driver, and earns more than 30k. The money you are paid is a reflection of how much demand there is, that is why grottyer jobs payless.
Have you ever looked after a screaming child? It is the most stressful thing I’ve ever done, even more so than sitting my University/professional exams.If i was just wiping the arse of kiddies all day long, i'd have a lot less stress thats for sure. (and also a lot less bordom as you have to wait 14.5 minuites for a batch to run which uses up all the CPUs on your dev boxes, because your still waiting on the damn app server you ordered a week ago).
I’m not sure it’s possible to be truly stressed and bored at the same time. This suggests you’re not quite as stressed as you’d like to have others believe…
So you want special treatment because you’re well enough off to be able to purchase a house? What if you were renting and lost your job? Should the government pay your rent?Once again miss the point. The stamp duty we paid, the tax i pay, offers no protection. Where as if i contributed nothing, went and fornicated with my first girl friend (so 7 years, call it 8 children by now?) we'd probably have a house paid for us.
You could always drop out, pretend you’re ill and get yourself onto Incapacity Benefit (which costs a massive amount more to the taxpayer than Jobseeker’s Allowance, by the way). The government would give you free money then, and a free house, and you know what, they’d even let you keep the benefit of using the NHS, even though you’re not paying anything towards it! Wow, sounds great, doesn’t it. Why not give it a try, and let the other fools pay their 40% tax…
I’m sorry, you do seem rather repressed.Good, mabye you will stop repressing me
Well first off there are people that don't financially contribute to society for bigger and better reasons than 'lazyitis'. Second if you remove benefits from people who are unwilling, rather than unable, to contribute I suspect you would end up with a worse situation - people turning to crime, etc.
As stated above there's no such thing as free education. You either pay directly or tax payers in general pay. I'd prefer access to education to be free but the reality is that it's pretty reasonable to expect someone to directly contribute to the costs of their own education.
Who decides? You could argue that making people pay for their own education enforces this point - if it isn't going to land you a good job then there will be less people prepared to take on the debt. However while it's a reasonable if rather mudane ambition to get a well paid job there are plenty of useful ways to spend your time (job wise) that aren't so well paid. Art may serve no practical purpose but the world would be a duller place without it. Nurses have crap pay but still need to go to uni for 3 years to qualify. Deciding what's valid - and how much (if anything) you pay based on how 'valid' a course is - is not an easy thing to do (though nursing is a pretty good example there as it's actually still possible to get onto a course without paying and even get a grant in a lot of cases AFAIK).
Most graduates end up being wage slaves just like everyone else and plod along just like everyone else. On a personal level I'll be amazed if I do anything in my career to improve anything other than my own life (and the lives of my nearest and dearest). If I do actually start contributing to society outside of paying taxes I imagine I will have changed career by then.
As for the moaning about the terms of your loan - well you may not feel like you had a choice but you could have found another way if you were suitably motivated. Similarly if the loan is so far out of what's offered on the normal regulated market perhaps you should try going to that market to refinance / 'consolidate' your loan? Or perhaps you can't because you're either classed as too much of a risk or perhaps you won't because you can't get better terms out on the market?
Last edited by malfunction; 11-02-2008 at 04:38 PM.
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