Sharia law in the UK

[Saracen]

LOL Jewish courts of law have been around for a while, thats fine. Put a Muslim court of law up people going crazy!.. Probably front page on the sun too im guessing lol

There should be ONE court system in this country, and that is the one run by the State, and they should be enforcing the law of the land and ONLY the law of the land. Jewish courts are no more acceptable than Sharia courts or, for that matter, Church of England or Catholic courts.

It's one thing for people that are willing to abide by voluntary Sharia arbitration (or Jewsih arbitration, or that of any other religious or even non-religious group) doing so, but it's very much another to have State courts enforcing decisions of "courts" that do not abide by the standards and principles of this country. This is NOT a Muslim country. If Muslims wish to submit to Sharia court, it's nobody's business but that of that court and those that submit to it. But as soon as State courts start enforcing it, it becomes unacceptable because Sharia law is not and I hope never will be part of the laws of this country.

[Saracen]

Problem with all this making changes to help other cultures is if we went to their country they would not make the same ammendments.

If they want to live here they should abide by our laws, rules and culture.

Anyway that's my opinion right or wrong.

x2o

Actually, I don't agree that that is the problem. I don't expect other countries to bow to my needs if I go to them. They're right to apply their own standards in their own country, just as I expect in mine.

And, of course, a lot of Muslims were born here, so this is their country. That's not the problem. The problem is that this country has a long and very specific legal culture, and it's part of this country. It is for other cultures coming here to get along, not for our culture to adapt to others, just as it is for our citizens to fit in with other cultures when in other countries.

That's why I say this is not a Muslim country. I see no problem with anyone, Muslim Jew or whatever living here, but it is not for our legal system to implement the legal practices of other cultures but for those other cultures to comply with our legal system. That's why it's fine for other cultures to use arbitration if all parties are willing, but not fine for it to be enforced by our courts. If our courts have to enforce Sharia decisions, then obviously at least one party wasn't willing to abide by that decision, or it would never have got past the level of willing arbitration.

[iranu]

Basically from what I can gather it's a religious based mediation service, of which is already employed by various other religions (Beth Din ) in the UK. It does not override UK law, it provides a means for alternative dispute resolution (in civil cases only) should both parties agree.

So what's the big deal?

And that is the big problem. We know that Islam discriminates against women and the societies that it produces are male orientated and dominated.

Muslim women are/will be coerced (by their male relatives who threaten force and their wider social group who threaten ostrisiation) to use these courts rather than the British courts that would give them fair redress in cases such as inheritence and worse domestic violence which is a criminal case, not a civil one. I expect that the same thing happens in Beth Din but to a lesser extent. This is bad news all round, it's the start of something far worse because our stupid government and other people in power who pander to theses minority groups will no doubt allow further arbitration this way. As the Muslim population grows they'll be even further demands for more criminal cases to be adjudicated this way. Along with faith schools this is another nail in the coffin for integration.

I really hope we have the balls in this country to finally seperate church and state once and for all and scrap all religious courts. What next pastafarian law?

[zoomee]

As its been quite correctly pointed out by a number of posters these laws are in place already for a number of other religions - Funny how Islam is mentioned and it becomes an issue.

As long as its mutually accepted by BOTH parties - there is no issue from my perspective. Yes Muslims, Jews and Christians have the UK laws to abide to - but aint it a bit obvious they aren't satisfactory - Look at the Fathers for Justice groups and the great lengths their members go to.....Most of their members don't follow a religion but they are still fighting for reform of the laws which these civil shariah law groups are looking to incorporate.

As for muslim females being coerced etc by family - that is not a fault of the religion but a fault of their culture - theres a very thin line between the two these days.

[Koolpc]

If the want Sharia law then tell them to go to a country that allows it.

[RedPutty]

If the want Sharia law then tell them to go to a country that allows it.

Looks like there will be sharia law here, just as there is the jewish one. I suggest if you don't want to live in a country that allows it then you go to a country that suits

The muslim laws probably do (as in all religions) betray the time they were written in. In a society where almost all the families consist of a housewife and a working husband it makes sense to pass more to the child who will typically be the breadwinner. The UK was a similar way not so long ago. It is only fairly recently we have developed our current patterns of both working.

For the record I am fully against religious laws becoming real laws, however if two parties wish to be bound by their own contract that is still compatible with the law at large then why should we interfere?

[moogle]

can u tell me the detailed information

I smell a spammah!

[Blitzen]

Looks like there will be sharia law here, just as there is the jewish one. I suggest if you don't want to live in a country that allows it then you go to a country that suits

The muslim laws probably do (as in all religions) betray the time they were written in. In a society where almost all the families consist of a housewife and a working husband it makes sense to pass more to the child who will typically be the breadwinner. The UK was a similar way not so long ago. It is only fairly recently we have developed our current patterns of both working.

For the record I am fully against religious laws becoming real laws, however if two parties wish to be bound by their own contract that is still compatible with the law at large then why should we interfere?

Ridiculous comment!
He was spot on when saying if you dont like it then go to a country that allows Sharia Law.
This is just the beginning of another culture, that has no place in Western Society, attempting to impose what they think is right.

I couldnt give a flying one if:
a) It offends a muslim
b) They think its a right to impose whichever laws they see fit
c) If i am accused of being a racist because of these points. I am not btw, but will get accused of it because i dont agree with the muslims

Also, we may have a few religious 'kangaroo' courts here already. Fact is, people such as Jews are nowhere near as hardcore in their beliefs.

Western Society has no place for these Eastern Archaic beliefs.

[shadowmaster]

Also, we may have a few religious 'kangaroo' courts here already. Fact is, people such as Jews are nowhere near as hardcore in their beliefs.

Fact is, it depends on what sect of Judaism you look at. The Ultra-Orthodox fundamentalists Jews are extremely 'hardcore' in their beliefs.

[360bhp]

Ridiculous comment!
He was spot on when saying if you dont like it then go to a country that allows Sharia Law.
This is just the beginning of another culture, that has no place in Western Society, attempting to impose what they think is right.

I couldnt give a flying one if:
a) It offends a muslim
b) They think its a right to impose whichever laws they see fit
c) If i am accused of being a racist because of these points. I am not btw, but will get accused of it because i dont agree with the muslims

Also, we may have a few religious 'kangaroo' courts here already. Fact is, people such as Jews are nowhere near as hardcore in their beliefs.

Western Society has no place for these Eastern Archaic beliefs.

You are not thought of as racist for disagreeing with Muslims, but comments like "has no place in Western Society" are comments that a racist would say... Why does Islamic culture (or even religion if thats what you mean) have no place?? Have you seen how many Muslims are working and living in the UK, and all around the world? Not like Muslims are a minority.

and.. Jews nowhere near hardcore in thier beliefs? LOL. Do the research.

[Amalie]

If members of a particular faith accept that their disputes will be arbitrated by those appointed within their faith to do so, that is up to them but no religion should be able to compel a member to have their dispute dealt with by a religious "court" if that is not what the complainant(s) wants. It should be a choice and the role of the religious leader should be that of arbitrator not judge. BUT the bottom line is that they, like us, must abide by the laws of the country they reside in and if they break those laws then it is a matter for the appointed courts to deal with.

[SharkFin]

Oh dear, Oh dear Oh dear...

Well it seems now that if you blow up enough buildings (no disrespect to those who have died in terror attacks, may they RIP) then you can swing the law of a western state to your disposal. It should be the case that you can come to our country, work in our country, live in our country, but you should adopt the values, customs and way of life of our country. It seems that since we dont have any kind of "constitution" that we sign up to as "our values" that the constant erosion of our culture from outside sources is bound to continue. Political correctness is the scourge of our very human rights, and why is religion still given a place in our laws, it is unacceptable that religious courts, schools etc be allowed. You go to a private school, or a state school and that is that. This is the way it works in our country, accept it or get out. I am not saying this completely against muslims, the fact is you can practice your religion all you want, at home, but the minute you start building massive mosques next to olympic venues then it has gone far too far. Imagine if the catholic church wanted to build a cathedral in the olympic village! There would be outrage!

This stuff reminds me of how eroded our values have become, it reminds me of the stories you hear on the news, for instance the muslim man who stabbed a BNP candidate to death and got what? 10 years or something? Imagine if the BNP candidate had stabbed the muslim? I'd say he'd be banged up for life! It makes me sick to think that different groups in society are treated differently, it should be equal for all, if muslims want to treat their women badly, they can do it in another country. They want to house bind their women, so they never learn english, so they cant integrate? they should not be here in the first place. They want to wear the vail? (btw the muslim vail has no mention in the qu'aran and is a modern invention) they can do it in another country.

Phew rant over.

[360bhp]

our country, work in our country, live in our country, but you should adopt the values, customs and way of life of our... accept it or get out.

I'm a british Muslim? Where do I go? My friend is a white british Muslim who has christian family, where does he go? You sound an awful lot like a BNP supporter..

Imagine if the catholic church wanted to build a cathedral in the olympic village! There would be outrage!

No there wouldn't. Who exactly would be outraged?

Imagine if the BNP candidate had stabbed the muslim? I'd say he'd be banged up for life!

Ever see the news story of racists who kicked and stamped on the head of a Muslim student, in a train station, because he had a beard? Or the news story about the BNP members house who was raided, and explosives were found? It's very silly to use stories that you have heard of.

muslims want to treat their women badly, they can do it in another country.

Muslims don't treat woman badly. They just don't allow them to be degreaded and disrespected. Of course you will have heard stories about woman being treated badly, but you can't judge a religion on it's followers, or on cultural practises.

[moogle]

Imagine if the BNP candidate had stabbed the muslim? I'd say he'd be banged up for life!

He'd have got the same or maybe less and then got out after 4-6 years for good behaviour. It's how it is in the UK.

As for the Veil I agree that it shouldn't be worn either or not worn in events like driving a car (I'm not sure but I'd say it affects how much you see unless it isn't very narrow at the eyes) or lets say that a muslim wearing a veil does a hit and run how the hell would someone describe to the police what they look like... It's just stupid.

BUT... this law doesn't really affect anyone else other than Muslims and when non-muslims have an outcry about it, it just shows that you just really don't want them here rather than them having a law etc. The law affects how they can deal with their issues nothing else. It's like they're saying "Hey can we deal with an issue in our own way?" and you guys are saying No!

If they were asking for law that affects all of us then I'd see the reason for not wanting it.

[shadowmaster]

It should be the case that you can come to our country, work in our country, live in our country, but you should adopt the values, customs and way of life of our country.

I’m curious what makes this ‘your’ country. What about those Muslim families or for that matter other immigrant families, that work hard, pay their taxes and respect the laws of this country, isn’t this their country as well? Do I have to be Anglo Saxon white for this country to be mine?

And what’s this ‘way of life’ that I keep hearing. Is that the one where we get pissed out of our brain every Friday night, and then cost the NHS £16 Billion in A&E treatments?

Oh dear, Oh dear Oh dear...
but the minute you start building massive mosques next to olympic venues then it has gone far too far. Imagine if the catholic church wanted to build a cathedral in the olympic village! There would be outrage!

If you had bothered to read up on the potential ‘mega mosque’ you would have realised the main concern with it is that the Islamic group ‘Tablighi Jamaat’ wish to head the project. The problem is that this group has links (according to the MI5) to various extremist and terrorist groups. I could not care less if a large Cathedral, or a mosque was built there. As long it looks nice (for the Olympics) and the majority of the members of the local community are happy with it, I don’t mind. Anyhow I personally don't think it will be built.

if muslims want to treat their women badly, they can do it in another country. They want to house bind their women, so they never learn english, so they cant integrate? they should not be here in the first place. They want to wear the vail?

Do you read the Sun? The vast majority of Muslims in the country do not lock up their women in cellars and only let them so they can be sold for marriage. There is no doubt that there are some extremists out there that do so but they are a small crazy minority. Also a lot of the time cultural practises play a big part.

so they cant integrate? they should not be here in the first place. They want to wear the vail?

Whats wrong with wearing a veil, if you want? There are plenty of young Muslim women in my medical course that are wearing full veils (except the face) and I don't have a problem with it. They say its their choice. I do appreciate though that the full veil should not worn where it can cause a serious problem, eg as a doctor, not to cover your face when communicating with a patient.

[educatedfool]

You are not thought of as racist for disagreeing with Muslims, but comments like "has no place in Western Society" are comments that a racist would say... Why does Islamic culture (or even religion if thats what you mean) have no place?? Have you seen how many Muslims are working and living in the UK, and all around the world? Not like Muslims are a minority.

and.. Jews nowhere near hardcore in thier beliefs? LOL. Do the research.

FYI 'Muslim' is not a race of people. So it is not racist at all.