Smoking ban in all pubs and clubs

[Matt1eD]

What would happen if smoking were completely banned in public (ie outside aswell) then would binge drinking etc rise. It was a point raised in The Commons that sales in clubs have risen were As for clubs being allowed to smoke, smaller country pubs would lose out on business - so either it should be kept as it is at the moment, or like it will be in summer 07, not partial.

dkmech:

Cafes are the new pubs, as they are considered a social place. I go to school in Tonbridge, Kent. It would really not exist as it does without the three or four main secondary schools - the food & drink market within Tonbridge is 70% fuelled by students under the legal drinking age.

It should also be noted that part of the point is to escape school... I board at school, and the house I'm in is at the other end of Tonbridge from caffe nero. Part of the experience is escaping from an otherwise somewhat restrictive environment. Many students from my school go down there to smoke (whether over 16 or not) and the concept that this ban will stop young people smoking I believe is not significant enough. I'm for either keeping the system as it is at the moment or a complete ban - an I believe a complete ban is drastic.

I will however say, if people smoke then don't try and get your problems sorted on the NHS - go private, you took the decision to smoke (and I hold no prejudices) so pay for it. In Italy if you buy cigarettes and ID is used that data is stored on a government server, if you're admitted to hospital they are aware that you smoke - taking that a step further I believe on should pay for treatment if a smoker..... where to draw the line on what ailment is smoking related is another problematical debate.

Carlh:

Your points about tobacco money being required was one of the major arguments for not having an outright ban... the government need the money!

[Atomic]

Ok so heart problems and cancer problems *Might* reduce slightly by people not smoking however there still going to need the funds so guess they shall have to raise taxes on other products (or massively increase the duty on the people still smoking after the ban is implemented)

They are getting increased tax from the extended licencing hours, maybe not as much but itll help. Also if the NHS doesnt have to spend £2.7bn every year on smoking related illnesses that will sure put some money back into the system!

I'd bet there will be an increase in non-smokers going to pubs/clubs, I know a lot of people who dont go out much because they despise the smell and taste of stale smoke. And they are the people intheory with more money than the smokers...

All the smokers are going to realise that they are the minority these days and get with the change in the attitude towards their (death inducing) pastime.

[Moby-Dick]

They are getting increased tax from the extended licencing hours, maybe not as much but itll help. Also if the NHS doesnt have to spend £2.7bn every year on smoking related illnesses that will sure put some money back into the system!

I'd bet there will be an increase in non-smokers going to pubs/clubs, I know a lot of people who dont go out much because they despise the smell and taste of stale smoke. And they are the people intheory with more money than the smokers...

All the smokers are going to realise that they are the minority these days and get with the change in the attitude towards their (death inducing) pastime.

The thing is that smoking brings in about £10bn a year in taxes - so the government is still up £6.5bn or so. I'm still not convinced that they'll be able to find that sort of short change down the side of the sofa.

Also if you have fewer smokers , then people will doubtless life longer - which means they'll need supporting in other ways for longer.

Smoking is an addiction , you can make them as much of a social pariah as you want , but they'll still smoke. As en ex-smoker of 10 years I know giving up isn't that easy - althought I have to say spending a week in Ireland wasn't an issue for me ( I had already begun to cut down by that point anyway , so perhaps it was just a usefull catalyst )

I'm still not convinced that all of these millions of people will come out from what ever smoke free environment they've previousdly enjoyed , and fully ebrace our wonderfull binge drinking culture , simply because their coats wont small of smoke any more.

[dkmech]

What we need is a nonburning addictive death delivery system. Then nonsmokers don't have to breathe in smoke. Smokers can suck a lollipop or somthing and still look cool and die young. If they are taxed the government will get their money. And they will not live long avoiding the need for expensive support.

Btw - if hospitals get freed up because less smokers have to be taken care off this should increase throughput of other patients, curing them sooner, reducing sick days, getting them back to work, strengthening the economy, bringing more tax money! How's that?

[Moby-Dick]

Btw - if hospitals get freed up because less smokers have to be taken care off this should increase throughput of other patients, curing them sooner, reducing sick days, getting them back to work, strengthening the economy, bringing more tax money! How's that?

a complete day dream....

If you have never had an addiction , I wouldn't expect you to understand.

[dkmech]

By the way, considering many people have moaned about government thinking up new crazy ways to get tax, then surelly the fact that they propose something that will improve the health of the population even though its costing government money is to be applauded.

Is it not a duty for a government to do their best to make their nation healthier? Yes it will cost money, but what doesn't?

[dkmech]

a complete day dream....

If you have never had an addiction , I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Erm, sorry. You made the point that if the smokers stop smoking even though the nhs will have to spend less there will be more money lost through tax lost. Lets assume what you say happens. Then my point is entirely valid. Addiction has nothing to do with it.

[Dav0s]

I think that poll is correct. Every smoker I know agrees that Smoking should be banned in all clubs and pubs. And nearly all the smokers I know are either trying to quit or want to quit in the future - this ban might help.

The one thing that really gets to me is when I get home from a club and my clothes smell like I have been smoking a thousand cigs - that pees me off.

remember coming home from sticking up skittles in local pub, stinking of smoke and being about 14, my mum thought id been smoking lol

[Moby-Dick]

Erm, sorry. You made the point that if the smokers stop smoking even though the nhs will have to spend less there will be more money lost through tax lost. Lets assume what you say happens. Then my point is entirely valid. Addiction has nothing to do with it.

but you are not going to make up a £6.5bn shortfall This is why it is very much in the governments interest to keep people smoking , inspite of what image they like to cultivate - to take Ireland , its not going to make a huge difference to the number of smokers , and if it does then you'd better get ready for your wallet to be lightened in another aspect of your life.

[Atomic]

This 6.5bn shortfall would only happen if every smoker stopped smoking, which I really doubt is gonna happen in any of our lifetimes!

[dangel]

I'm with dkmech - can't we just find a healthy way to ingest nicotine? How about a health y injection each morning, or spooning some in with your coffee? Is it possible to snort a line of nicotine?

It's time for a more modern approach to foistering addicition on our young - perhaps we just need more education in primary schools?

[dkmech]

I'm with dkmech - can't we just find a healthy way to ingest nicotine? How about a health y injection each morning, or spooning some in with your coffee? Is it possible to snort a line of nicotine?

It's time for a more modern approach to foistering addicition on our young - perhaps we just need more education in primary schools?

Not everyone likes needles. So injections may be unsuitable. Its good that there are already chewing gums and patches mind. Maybe sweets to start kids early? And then we can tax the nicotine delivery products. That'll be the income sorted. By the way its not just the nicotine, yes this is the addictive ingredient, but there's also all sorts of tar and particles to pollute the lungs... Maybe an aerosol? Like what asthma sufferers take? A gasp of that and you are golden for 30 mins!

Genius! Once inhaling that actually gives you asthma you can then have a 2in1 aerosol that delivers asthma relief too. Both the poison and the remedy in one small convenient package. Will make it silver in colour too - people love silver. And some bright colours with disney characters for the kids! Brb, gonna go patent that. Don't spend all the tax money from this at once mind. We'll need some to invest into more brilliant ideas.

[shelley bda]

I do think Restaurants should ban Smoking, families with children are more likely to use Restaurants than pubs.

Banning fags from all pubs seems a bit silly really, they should leave it to the discretion of the Landlord so people have a choice of wether they want to go to a non smoking pub or not

Btw i don't smoke and i hate people smoking around me

[Moby-Dick]

any chance of getting this back on topic rather than promoting your lack of understanding for people ? ( not aimed at shelly.....)

[dkmech]

Shelley,
What landlord is going to use his discretion to ban smoking in his pub. It may work now as a novelty thing when everywhere else is smoke free, but when more smoke free pubs will be available then the smoking ones would have advantage. And its not just up to landlord. Where will your smoking friends drag you? Smoke free pub? Doubt it.

[dkmech]

any chance of getting this back on topic rather than promoting your lack of understanding for people ? ( not aimed at shelly.....)

I don't think that encouraging people to carry on smoking is sympathy or proof of understanding. I think that they should be given all the help they need to give up and all the encouragement they can get, and I did my best to be understanding to my smoking friends and help some of them give up.
I understand addiction, and I can see that while you are young and relatively full of energy it doesn't seem like a big deal and you want everyone off your back. But as a non-smoker trying to be sociable you end up reeking of smoke almost everywhere you go out. And its not just the matter of clothes smelling funny. So will someone understand me? Or because I am not addicted I don't deserve understanding?
And what about staff? Don't try to tell me they have a choice. If you need a job you take whatever is coming, and if you are a student then tending bar is one of the most available options. And you won't have smoking staff refusing work in a nonsmoking pub so that someone who doesnt smoke can work there. You'll have non smokers either work inhaling smoke or being unemployed. I think they should have their rights defended too.