Intelligent Design / Evolution podcast

[Auran]

Just a few points;

1. The probability of other life existing in the universe is not remote, it happens to be so probable that we are pretty much guaranteed not to be alone. There was an excellent TV program by Carl Sagan on this many years ago, and more recent discoveries in terms of where life can live have only served to underline the premises upon which it was based.

2. As G4Z has said, "not descended from apes" - I get the feeling that this is the real source of the fundamentalist proponents of ID's antagonism towards evolution. How can we be special if we were once ape like creatures? Well to be blunt -we aren't special, in fact our existence compared to the vastness of the universe is inconsequential. Until our species is willing to embrace this concept and move beyond it we are doomed to kill each other in pointless wars over meaningless beliefs.

3. Whilst scientific design should not be taught in science classes, whatever it’s proponents may say it is not a scientific theory. I do agree that it should be discussed in either general or religious studies. [There is no evidence upon which to create such a hypothesis. The argument that God must have had a hand in the process because we cannot create life is idiotic, not so long ago we believed that man would never fly.]

[autopilot]

patronising. conjecture. unsupported by evidence

A bit like ID then

As far as I'm concerned, science just seeks to explore the foundations & rules laid out by God.

Indeed. I am not religious - i believe in god, i just dont believe in religion. I know many people who are very religious, good intellignet people who can see that from their point of view, that is just how it is. God created an earth many years ago, and evolved from there. Stuff like Adam and Eve are lessons. Important regious lessons, but not fact. The fact that Darwin's theories are being thrown out of the class room (in some schools in the states it completely banned) and been replaced with ID in science is just insane.

[TeePee]

Let there be Plancks constant, and let it = h ?

[atrull]

idiocy diaspora ?

[Firebar]

Seriously what planet are you on? we ARE apes, we ARE primates, the opposible thumbs give it away.

Or opposible thumbs because we are built to hold items?

It's all down to personal beliefs and I don't think indirect/direct personal attacks will help, as the thread is certainly going that way (as they always do). Why a discussion can't be kept civil is beyond me.

Just a question for you disciples of science (another pun ), why do you get so angry and het up over people believing in God? Are you jealous, insecure, angry because you think we're dumb? Its a genuine question and I'd be grateful if someone could answer it.

[fuddam]

1. The probability of other life existing in the universe is not remote, it happens to be so probable that we are pretty much guaranteed not to be alone. There was an excellent TV program by Carl Sagan on this many years ago, and more recent discoveries in terms of where life can live have only served to underline the premises upon which it was based.

probability? well, to use probability is to lend some credence to the existence of God, seeing as despite your non-belief, billions of people say otherwise, due both to experential evidence and personal relationship with that God. Yes, for a relationship to exist it must be 2-way. Yes, most natural materialists think they are more intelligent than the vast majority out there - humility has never been their strong point.

2. As G4Z has said, "not descended from apes" - I get the feeling that this is the real source of the fundamentalist proponents of ID's antagonism towards evolution. How can we be special if we were once ape like creatures?

we once were apes - that's conjecture, isn't it?

I get the feeling that this is the real source of the fundamentalist proponents of Materialism's antagonism towards ID. The history of Christianity, right from Genesis, is about a God in pursuit of his people, and their unwillingness to listen or respond to that love. Materialism is just a current example.

Until our species is willing to embrace this concept and move beyond it we are doomed to kill each other in pointless wars over meaningless beliefs.

well, seeing as the worst cases of genocide in recorded history (Stalin, Mao) occured over the last century, when Science ruled king, and religion had NOTHING to do with it, I'd say your non-theist position holds no more water as a peaceful solution than any other.

The argument that God must have had a hand in the process because we cannot create life is idiotic, not so long ago we believed that man would never fly.

never said that. go read again. I stated unequivocally that it's quite possible they WILL create life in the future. you are jumping to conclusions.

[schmunk]

well, seeing as the worst cases of genocide in recorded history (Stalin, Mao) occured over the last century, when Science ruled king, and religion had NOTHING to do with it, I'd say your non-theist position holds no more water as a peaceful solution than any other.

Does the word 'Crusades' mean anything to you?

[schmunk]

This picture (linked, cos it's mahoosive) shows the problem with this debate.

http://www.thepaincomics.com/Science%20vs.%20Norse.jpg

[Firebar]

Ah the Crusades. A complete joke, naturally most of those taking part about as Christian as I don't know what, good fun though - war and all that, huzzah!

Unfortunately Religion is often used as a scape goat. Many things are done in the "name" of God, but which are infact totally nasty and evil (sometimes even by aethists covering themselves - shock horror).

Dont judge us on what people do, its all about what Jesus did - he's the centre of our world.

Matthew 7:22-23

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you - depart from me, you who practice lawlessness' "

[schmunk]

From Wikipedia

"The Crusades were a series of several military campaigns—usually sanctioned by the Papacy—that took place during the 11th through 13th centuries. Originally, they were Roman Catholic Holy Wars to recapture Jerusalem and the Holy Land from the Muslims, but some were directed against other Europeans, such as the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars of southern France and the Northern Crusades. The Fourth Crusade was originally intended to reach the Holy Land, but was re-directed by the Venetians against Constantinople."

So mainly Christian, then.

However, I'm not saying that religion causes war. Ideology, greed and arrogance cause war, people believing they are better than others and more deserving of land, resources and quality of life. The sheen of reason thinly spread over the top of this is largely immaterial.


Edit : oops, I haven't changed anything...

[TeePee]

well, seeing as the worst cases of genocide in recorded history (Stalin, Mao) occured over the last century, when Science ruled king, and religion had NOTHING to do with it, I'd say your non-theist position holds no more water as a peaceful solution than any other.

So you believe Stalin and Mao were killing in the name of science? Somone needs to learn a little more about history....

[Firebar]

So mainly Christian, then.

An this is where your definition of Christian is wrong. Hence my quote from the Bible. Sanctioning such action in my eyes is such a COMPLETE misuse of power that the Pope has/had and is certainly not a Christian way to act, 100%.

Much like islamic terrorists and the current situation. They shouldn't be taken to represent Islam around the world.

And here we get to "who is Christian?", in my eyes Catholics are on the fence. Although its not for me to judge, it depends where they put their faith. Putting the Pope above Jesus is clearly wrong, which they often do on occasion. Too wrapped up in traditions.

[schmunk]

Jesus wasn't Christian, his followers are.

You can't get much more Christian than the Pope though (and such kind eyes)...

[Firebar]

Jesus wasn't Christian, his followers are.

? Jesus = Christ, Christian are followers, yes. Yet Jesus is basically at the centre of Christianity, and hence Catholics shouldn't put the pope above him. Once you try to give a man holy power and the ability to judge and forgive sins, thats bad. It is written clearly and explicitly that only Jesus can forgive our sins.

You can get far more Christian than the Pope. Waste of space imo.

I think your understanding of Christianity and doctrines is slightly off.

[schmunk]

Personal insults now, is it?

[Firebar]

Sorry?

I think your understanding of Christianity and doctrines is slightly off.

I think you're being too touchy, that wasn't mean as an insult in any way at all. Its just you were talking about Christian doctrines and they were wrong, for the interests of other people I tried to correct them.