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About LinkBacksWhy do you feel the need to post about ID and try to insist it is real science.
Its because you feel the need to justify yourself.
Why do you feel the need to post about ID and try to insist it is real science.
Its because you feel the need to justify yourself.
historical materialism mean anything to you?Originally Posted by TeePee
religion is the opiate of the masses? religion as just a fantasy to ease the plight of the oppressed classes, from which they need to be released by the virtues of modernity? Grounded in reality, in the material? hmmm
the SCIENCE of economics? or is that a religion? or a faith? you decide.
why do you feel the need to attack ID?
I believe in the Big Bang. I assume you do too. Your explanation for the cause thereof is no better than mine, and a good deal worse I'd argue
I posted the topic because it was both useful and interesting for people with curiosity, regardless of belief. You have faith in science, as fractured as it is; I have faith in God & science.
ho hum
in a nutshell, CONJECTURE!!!!!!!!!!
how do you know they are lies?
you are blinded by your faith in your science. VERY.
you see, this is a real case for the whole aruging with a woman who belives the worlds built on the back of a turtle.
You can't shake them off that belive with logic, because they just belive another turtle is beneith it.
In this case, fuddam thinks that hocus pocus is science, and nothing will shake that, not even the proper idea of scientific theory (hypothesis, experimentation (often theoretical), conclusion (proof?)). The big difference is there is no logical debate for it, and that is their arguement, its like could god excist outside of science, some say yes, because god created science, others say no because science created their idea of god.
The problem is when your on the side of reason, the other person looks like an ignorant zealot, simply clinging to their definition of a word as a form of proof. As such they will never conciede defeat. Just a quickie fuddam, do you think scientology is valid in interpreting all problems of mental health as non-chemical problems? When they refute people like my sister who on sceritonin are much happyer + nicer?
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
How do I know they are lies? They say ID is a science. It isn't.
I'm not blind, I just can't see past all the proof, logic and reason...
I do not have belief or faith in science, its not a religion. Like I have said before
religion and science are not equivalent. You are the one which feels the need to
justify your faith.
I feel the need to attack ID as you put it because you are publically putting it up as
some scientific truth which it fundamentally is not.
I dont "believe" in the big bang, I see it as a possibilty of how things came about, which
is supported by evidence of what we know. Unlike you I can accept that there are
things which we may never know and dont have to say well it must be god then.
Which is what ID is all about, we cant explain something so therefore it must be gods
doing.
ID is all about power. Knowledge is power. Ensure that your version of the truth is taught to the masses to back up your religion and you gain power.
Hell if you are going to teach ID then you may as well teach every other crack pot theory at the same time.
Get David Icke around to teach our children that the world is ruled by 8ft lizards - he has books to prove it don't you know. Hell teach them that the spaghetti monster is the creator. It's just as valid (or rather invalid). If you are going to simply teach theory masquarading as science then by definition you must teach all other theories no matter how absurd they may be to you. The end result would be children who could not work anything else out for themselves. Science has METHOD for a reason.
It goes something like this - I have a thought about something, I produce a theory/hypothesis. I then look to prove that hypothesis via experiment. My findings either support my hypothesis or they don't. If they do then others have to reproduce the experiment for the theory to become accepted.
Why is it like this? Well it's something to do with reason and logic and proof. It stops crackpots manipulating science for their own means. Darwin proofed beyond all doubt that evolution occurs. In fact it's such a simple theory it's amazing why no-one else came up with it before he did, and why did they not come up with it before he did? Because everyone was indoctrinated with a religion that DICTATES the way things are.
Why did Copernicus suffer? He was right, he had proof. We know he was right. The reason he was persecuted was because the truth did not fit with the Catholic doctrine of the time. To question the church was to question it's absolute authority, therefore it was a challenge to it's power. ID is exactly the same. A way to hide the truth because the truth does not support that particular INTERPRETATION of the Bible, it reduces the power of said organisation. You may aswell teach people that Harry Potter is real and that we should take wizardry seriously.
Our society has come so far because we have shacken off the shackles of religion and the small minded, pre-concieved ideas that it promotes. It really is time for the western world to regard religion as no more than an association of individuals like a book club or a cycling club.
"Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.
Iranu,
I just though I would chip in to say I agree and I think that was a very insightful post, I do think its a shame however that because you have put it so well you will either not get a response or the repsonse will be to argue over some technicality of language used or worse a passage from the bible.
Fudda, you say you have faith in God and Science, so what happens when you apply the scientiffic method as described above to god?
Its a rhetorical question because I already did it and I know the answer, you should consider doing the same.
Also Firebar, yes we do have opposible thumbs for picking stuff up, there is a group of species that typicaly exhibit this, they are called... oh yeah, primates. Funnily enough Chimpanzees are our closest living relative, this was discovered through DNA analysis, and lets face it you would trust a DNA analysis to lock somebody up for murder, why wouldnt you accept it as evidence that we are apes?
By the way if ID gets accepted I propose my own personal theory of "G4Z owns everthing on earth" is taught, because I do, its all mine and if I teach that to every little kid, they will think its true...
HEXUS FOLDING TEAM It's EASY
Oh dear. Really big != infinite, honest.
An infinite number of monkeys will produce the complete works of Shakespeare (or any finite text) instantaneously. Similarly, a finite number of monkeys, given infinite time, will eventually manage the same feat. (Assuming you can teach a monkey to hit a key on a typewriter at random - not a given, looking at that wikipedia article!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem
One further correction - humans have a common ancestor with the apes, they aren't descended from them.
Questions on evolutionary theory - please head to talkorigins or talkdesign.
Pointless thread to be fair - ID wasn't scientific the last time this got discussed, and it still isn't - if you would care to only start a new thread on this when, perhaps, ID has had something published in a peer reviewed science journal which allows the testing of whatever hypothesis it claims.
Byatt, you are correct, but it all depends on what you call that common ancestor, was it an ape or a hominid? either way you would certainly call it a primate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierola...s_catalaunicus Is understood to be the closest to a common ancestor.
I dont actualy understand why people get upset about evolving from the same species apes did, after all every animal on earth has a common ancestor, i.e the sponge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...uman_evolution
HEXUS FOLDING TEAM It's EASY
Yeah - apologies, nitpicking somewhat - doesn't bother me at all, shush though, else hicks in the US will start yammering about the fact that they aren't the spawn (hah) of a sponge, instead of a monkey/ape/other misnomer.
Just out of curiosity Fuddam, could you answer a couple of questions for me -
1) Do you think the earth is flat?, and 2) Do you think that gravity is do to with something else (divine) or is it that rotating bodies produce gravity?
If the answer to both those questions is NO, please could you explain why. If the answer is YES, please also inform us why.
Also, when George W Bush said "God told me to do it", do you believe god actually did? If not, could you explain why he may have said that? And pleeeeease don't come out with the old chestnut 'i believe he believes that', thats not what i am asking.
Thanks.
PS, this is quite an interesting, but long read. Not sure i agree with is all, but the guy as made some very good points... http://www.users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html . BTW please don't take this link, or anythig else i have said, as 'i hate christians. I really dont and have some good christian mates. It's crap like ID i detest.
Last edited by autopilot; 28-03-2006 at 10:47 PM.
Mmmmmm, large rotating boobies....
Lol, yeah the moral of the story is - dont try and type when drunk. Damn you Sol (with a nice slice of lime).Mmmmmm, large rotating boobies....
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