City Bonus - Why does the UK media hate it?

[badass]

Well I know why it pisses me off everytime I look at my 13,000 a year wage slip, which i easily work 45 hours a week for.

But in general it just sickens me that so much human potential is set to work making money through speculation in order to make more money to speculate (oh and of course a few people get golden pools but that's beside the point).

Meanwhile hospitals are crumbling and being pimped out to pfi schemes, the NHS can't afford drugs for alzheimers or breast cancer, public transport is a state, global warming continues and i've to get up every weekday and waste my life in a glorified data input job centred around making programmes for financial institutes for a paltry 13,000.

Well sort it out then!
The only people that are stuck opn a low paid job for good are those that are too unintelligent to do something better paid. Everyone else simply lacks motivation.
You are intelligent enough to be a data imputter and have found the Hexus forums, so I suspect you could also work for more money, if you spent the effort looking for it and working towards it.
And WTF do city bonuses have to do with hospitals anyway. Hospitals are screwed because of our gov't, not people that get a city bonus.

[revol68]

Well sort it out then!
The only people that are stuck opn a low paid job for good are those that are too unintelligent to do something better paid. Everyone else simply lacks motivation.
You are intelligent enough to be a data imputter and have found the Hexus forums, so I suspect you could also work for more money, if you spent the effort looking for it and working towards it.
And WTF do city bonuses have to do with hospitals anyway. Hospitals are screwed because of our gov't, not people that get a city bonus.

firstly, I don't think anyone should be given such ridiculous sums of money for playing around speculating with other peoples money. So it's not a matter of me thinking I should get it or deserve it.

The rest of your argument is arrogant pish, which is not only insulting to the millions of people who actually work for low wages and carry out vital work, work alot more fecking vital than money speculating but shows a complete lack of understanding of how capitalism works.

Say everyone got super educated what would it change? You'd just have really educated kids serving you at McDonalds, I suppouse it might be interesting to have a discussion about Kant's transcedental ideal whilst waiting on your McFlurry but it doesn't change the fact that you still require the vast majority of people to work for low wages in soul destroying jobs.

You also assume that I want to do a job that pays lots of money, when infact i'd rather put my penis in a blender than work in the city, what I want rather is a society in which I can do something socially useful and be secure from it.

As it is the city bonus's are rather meaningless, they just illustrate how irrational capitalism is that it rewards people whose job it is to make money for banks infinitely more than care workers, nursing home assistants, and all the other "unintelligent and unmotivated" people who actually keep our society running.

[JPreston]

...
The only people that are stuck opn a low paid job for good are those that are too unintelligent to do something better paid. Everyone else simply lacks motivation....

Dude that's a bit out of order, people like ambulance drivers save lives for low money, and they aren't stupid or lazy.

Not everyone is motivated to maximise their earnings at all costs. Eg I've gone for work-life balance, which is why I can spend all day posting about planes on treadmills, and can still afford to buy and not worry about rates going up or prices falling (suppose it helps that I still earn more than my chums in banking ).

I don't know how well the key-worker housing schemes work, I hope they take good care of all the teachers nurses etc on which we all depend. I agree that people who didn't work in school and expect to find high paid work without them having to move or work hard don't have a right to complain about how they can't afford to buy a house. Suppose that makes me sound like Norman Tebbit though

[Moby-Dick]

Not everyone is Money Motivated - but if you are then a low paid job probably isn't for you

[Rack]

Well said Revol. I totally agree.

People get pissed off because it's out of proportion. It just shows how ridiculous capitalism is. My girlfriend works 50+ hours in child protection in social work, and her bonus is missing about 5 zeros off that one. She is constantly getting harassed by people on benefits who abuse their children*, and she has to be professional about it and keep the child's best interest in mind at all times. It's a hard stressful job.

But if she had the same drive and ambition in Finance, she would help exactly 0 children (except our potential children) but earn a 6-7 figure bonus.

So yes, these bonus' stink. It is an example of where our society is going. So I think I'm going to go home tonight, have a beer, watch TV and stop thinking about it.

*(no, it's not only people on benefits, but unfortunately these people are targets because they are being watched, they only scratch the surface, don't get me started, etc)

[revol68]

Well said Revol. I totally agree.

People get pissed off because it's out of proportion. It just shows how ridiculous capitalism is. My girlfriend works 50+ hours in child protection in social work, and her bonus is missing about 5 zeros off that one. She is constantly getting harassed by people on benefits who abuse their children*, and she has to be professional about it and keep the child's best interest in mind at all times. It's a hard stressful job.

But if she had the same drive and ambition in Finance, she would help exactly 0 children (except our potential children) but earn a 6-7 figure bonus.

So yes, these bonus' stink. It is an example of where our society is going. So I think I'm going to go home tonight, have a beer, watch TV and stop thinking about it.

*(no, it's not only people on benefits, but unfortunately these people are targets because they are being watched, they only scratch the surface, don't get me started, etc)

thank you,

I was beginning to think i'd entered some sort of Thatcherite dystopia where somehow stockbrokers and currency speculators were people we aspire to.

[badass]

firstly, I don't think anyone should be given such ridiculous sums of money for playing around speculating with other peoples money. So it's not a matter of me thinking I should get it or deserve it.

Do you know where this money goes?
Pensions! These people provide us with pensions.

The rest of your argument is arrogant pish, which is not only insulting to the millions of people who actually work for low wages and carry out vital work, work alot more fecking vital than money speculating but shows a complete lack of understanding of how capitalism works.

Say everyone got super educated what would it change? You'd just have really educated kids serving you at McDonalds, I suppouse it might be interesting to have a discussion about Kant's transcedental ideal whilst waiting on your McFlurry but it doesn't change the fact that you still require the vast majority of people to work for low wages in soul destroying jobs.

You also assume that I want to do a job that pays lots of money, when infact i'd rather put my penis in a blender than work in the city, what I want rather is a society in which I can do something socially useful and be secure from it.

As it is the city bonus's are rather meaningless, they just illustrate how irrational capitalism is that it rewards people whose job it is to make money for banks infinitely more than care workers, nursing home assistants, and all the other "unintelligent and unmotivated" people who actually keep our society running.

I didn't think of caring workers at the time and that does make my comments there rubbish, however I dont think data entry falls under the do it for the love of it umbrella unless its for a charity or something similar.
However if you choose a low paid job for any reasons you cant moan about those that are higher paid, unless there is some unfair glass ceiling that prevents you from getting it.
I still say its jealousy. These people do their jobs well so they get paid well. If they did a bad job they would get paid less. and they still provide a service to this country.

[revol68]

they provide a service to what country? I'm sorry but since when did banks work for countries and furthermore since when did countries ever work for their populations?

The money doesn't go in pensions per se, it goes into other investments which go into pensions which in turn goes into more investments. The whole point of pensions is that they are invested, they are on a constant loop and that's why pensions collapse because they are always being moved about in an attempt to make more money. You also talk about these pensions as if they are all shared out nice and evenly, like some sort of collective benevolent fund, they certainly aren't. There is a reason my granny lived her last years out in a dingy council flat whilst others went to live in Spain, namely that she never earned enough money to be able to invest it in a pension.

And there is a glass ceiling it's just not a class ceiling for individuals but for classes. As I pointed out everyone could have IQ's of 250 and make Gary Neville look like a lazy bastard but it would only mean you had superintelligent motivated folk working for low wages. I mean I can discuss Derrida, Foucault, Marx, Hegel and Sartre with the best of them, it's not going to save me from this ****e job, because essentially i have the wrong type of knowlegde.

[badass]

they provide a service to what country? I'm sorry but since when did banks work for countries and furthermore since when did countries ever work for their populations?

The service they provide is making pensions increase in value. Forget that I said country.
Your constant implication is that they do nothing for any of us, whilst others do.

The money doesn't go in pensions per se, it goes into other investments which go into pensions which in turn goes into more investments. The whole point of pensions is that they are invested, they are on a constant loop and that's why pensions collapse because they are always being moved about in an attempt to make more money.

Rubbish. Pensions collapse because of Robert Maxwells. Pensions can go down in value if the funds they have invested in go down, but they recover afterwards anyway.

You also talk about these pensions as if they are all shared out nice and evenly, like some sort of collective benevolent fund, they certainly aren't. There is a reason my granny lived her last years out in a dingy council flat whilst others went to live in Spain, namely that she never earned enough money to be able to invest it in a pension.

So because pensions aren't the same for everyone, people shouldn't get city bonuses?
Thats not even remotely logical

And there is a glass ceiling it's just not a class ceiling for individuals but for classes. As I pointed out everyone could have IQ's of 250 and make Gary Neville look like a lazy bastard but it would only mean you had superintelligent motivated folk working for low wages. I mean I can discuss Derrida, Foucault, Marx, Hegel and Sartre with the best of them, it's not going to save me from this ****e job, because essentially i have the wrong type of knowlegde.

But everyone doesn't have the IQ and motivation, so thats completely irrelevant.
If A PERSON, IN THE PRESENT TIME works hard, and works smart, they can earn lots of money. I wouold also sugest you look at teh backgrounds of these city types. Most of them are/were working class.

Your attitude towards these city workers looks like sour grapes to me, just like anyone else I have heard moaning at these large bonuses.

I agree with people being annoyed at incompetent directors getting huge salaries, but if someone's good at their job and the job pays well, then there's nothing to moan about.

[Moby-Dick]

You also have to factor in that some of the higher pressure jobs in the city ( those that would attract these large bonuses ) have a very high rate of burn out - you can only work 70 - 80 hour weeks for so long

[Rack]

It is out of proportion though, and it shows because there is a problem in this country that - irrelevant of some great 'exceptions from the rule' examples of people rising above - it is very difficult for someone from a poor background to end up in these sort of jobs. It is sickening that in this country there are children living below the poverty line, other people earn this rediculous sort of money a year. How can you actually value someone's job 1000x more, just because they are in a different industry?

We are not in an openly corrupt society, however it is a lot more subtle - if you work in an industry that deals with money you are much more likely to be able to scoop some off the top for yourself, "legally".

Just like my mate who works in IT/finance, working for a regular contractor get salary Y, working for a bank gets 2xY doing the exact same job.

[Moby-Dick]

<showbiz>Thats Capitalism for you!</showbiz>

Why are footballers so overpaid ?

Why can a plumber get away with charging so much ?

Just like my mate who works in IT/finance, working for a regular contractor get salary Y, working for a bank gets 2xY doing the exact same job.

This isn't the case - in my field ( DBA ) the industry you work in doesn't make much difference.I moved form a major estate agent to a 'big 4' global financial consultancy for a lot less than double ! The only way I could double my salary would be to move from a permanent to a contract role , a choice which I currently dont wish to do , but thats my choice - I could earn &#163;300 a day in the city if I chose to , but dont particularly fancy 3 hours commute & no life

[JPreston]

It is out of proportion though, and it shows because there is a problem in this country that - irrelevant of some great 'exceptions from the rule' examples of people rising above - it is very difficult for someone from a poor background to end up in these sort of jobs. It is sickening that in this country there are children living below the poverty line, other people earn this rediculous sort of money a year...

You are exactly right, I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily an 'exception to the rule' but I do OK and sad to say, professionally speaking, I stopped meeting anybody from a background anything like mine a long time ago. I can't name more than three people I work with who was not publicly schooled, for a start.

WTF is that about? The UK is nowhere near as meritocratic as some people seem to think. Or maybe it's just coincidence that the children of wealthy parents have all the 'skills, motivation and intelligence' as well.

[b0redom]

Revol68:

I'm not sure what you're saying. Banks are massive companies which will continue to make lots of money - don't forget they make huge profits from consulting on business acquisitions etc.

People at the top are always going to be given massive bonuses because the banks can afford to be very fussy who they employ.

If you don't want to work for a bank that's fine, but you can't then complain about the benefits of the people who do. That's like someone working in McDonalds complaining that their plumber gets paid more than they do.

Personally I couldn't get on with the whole banking thing myself but I don't envy people there who do - sure it'd be nice to earn millions, but I'd prefer to have a social life.

[Nick]

Ok, one quick question... well two actually...

Just what IS it that happens to a bank for it to cost &#163;35 when I have a DD returned?

Oh, and while you're on, why is it that despite funds from a cheque showing in my account, I can't actually draw against them for two more working days?

I'd be particularly interested in the answer to the first one... perhaps than I'll be more sympathetic towards big bonuses...

By the way, hope you work for the Co-op bank... ethical banking practises and all that, not one of those banks that invest in ill gotten gains, profiteering off misery and corrupt regimes....

[Splash]

Just like my mate who works in IT/finance, working for a regular contractor get salary Y, working for a bank gets 2xY doing the exact same job.

From my experience in IT you can work a steady job on a regular contract for Y, move to contracting and roughly make 2y.

Not sure if that's the case in all fields, but I do the former as I quite like the knowledge that I have a job next week, next month etc etc etc without having to worry about how I'll pay my bills in 6 months. Of course this doesn't suit everyone - some would rather work contracts for 6-8 months a year and take it easy for the rest.

But I digress...