Rate my build

[BGA]

PC died today, luckily I was considering replacing it so I had already done some research. Please please rate the following build, loosely the Toms Hardware March '11 $1000 enthusiast build:

CPU
Intel i5 2500K Sandy Bridge

Mobo
MSI P67a-GD55

RAM
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)

GPU
SAPPHIRE 100312-2SR Radeon HD 6950 2GB 256-bit GDDR5

PSU
CORSAIR Enthusiast Series CMPSU-650TX 650W

Case
COOLER MASTER Elite 430 RC-430-KWN1

HD
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5002AALX 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

DVD
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X


In particular I am concerned about the RAM - is it the most optimal? Is it overkill? Does this mobo/NB/cpu allow dual channel operation if I have all 4 slots used or just 2? Can I put 4x4GB in this and get a full 16GB of dual channel operation? What is the difference between PC-10666, 10660, and 10600?

Is the PSU sufficient? Would it be sufficient if I wanted to add another 6950 in crossfire later on?

I chose the mobo because the local microcenter had a deal for the cpu/mobo combo for $299 after rebate, plus tax - actually considerably less than on newegg... The mobo seems good, one big difference I noticed between it and comparable mobos is that this is 16x/16x when set up in crossfire whereas the others drop to 8x/8x.

Would really love feedback from this community because you all know your stuff!

Suggestions for replacements of individual components in a similar price range would be welcome.

Total cost after mail in rebates = $924.51

[richieuk]

Wouldn't hurt to find a Z68 board now, and unless that board doesn't support 1600MHz ram, go with that.

[planet436]

I would go for the Samsung F3 1GB. Known for being quieter than the WD. The SATA 6.0 is a marketing gimmick which pushes prices up.

The 6950 afaik needs 2 6 pin PCI-E connectors, so to crossfire them you would need 4 such connectors from a PSU, the TX650 doesn't have this many so may limit your options. The TX750 does have the additional connectors but is an extra $15 dollars or so.

Ram - cheapest 2x4GB you can find. Speed is irrelevant you will not notice the difference. You can populate all the slots if need be but might affect OC potential.

DVD - cheapest OEM model you can find.

Depending on what resolution you are playing at the 6950 is overkill. Anything 1920x1080 or lower I would go for the 1GB version and save some money. If you can find the money for an SSD then I strongly recommend getting one as a boot drive, it's the biggest upgrade you can make to a PC. Intel 80GB or Crucial/corsair 60-64GB are recommended if can stretch the cash.

[c.ruel]

I second what planet436 said.

Also that is quite an expensive build would you not prefer a slightly more expensive case? For like 10 dollars more you could get an antec 300 or HAF 912, which I think are both nicer cases and "better". With the money saved from getting normal ram and the samsung hard drive you might be able to stretch to a lian li A05n case or you may want to spend the money on a more expensive psu. (not that the TX650 is bad just if you wanted modular or crossfire HD 6950s there are better options).

Other than seems pretty awesome

[BGA]

Wouldn't hurt to find a Z68 board now, and unless that board doesn't support 1600MHz ram, go with that.

Why?

I would go for the Samsung F3 1GB. Known for being quieter than the WD. The SATA 6.0 is a marketing gimmick which pushes prices up.

The 6950 afaik needs 2 6 pin PCI-E connectors, so to crossfire them you would need 4 such connectors from a PSU, the TX650 doesn't have this many so may limit your options. The TX750 does have the additional connectors but is an extra $15 dollars or so.

Ram - cheapest 2x4GB you can find. Speed is irrelevant you will not notice the difference. You can populate all the slots if need be but might affect OC potential.

DVD - cheapest OEM model you can find.

Depending on what resolution you are playing at the 6950 is overkill. Anything 1920x1080 or lower I would go for the 1GB version and save some money. If you can find the money for an SSD then I strongly recommend getting one as a boot drive, it's the biggest upgrade you can make to a PC. Intel 80GB or Crucial/corsair 60-64GB are recommended if can stretch the cash.

THANKS! This is exactly the kind of input that I was hoping to get. I will go with a 1GB GPU. Is the HD noise so much that I would be bothered by it? Never thought of the HD as a big noise problem...

Can you talk more about the RAM? Why is the cheapest the best? Would it be wise to go with a super cheap, no name brand? Or do you mean get the cheapest of one of the more reputable brands? Can you tell me if the board/cpu supports dual channel in all 4 slots?

As for the SSD... How do you set it up? If I only had an SSD that wouldn't be enough for games and everything else. Can you have a SSD for games and a regular HD for storing other files?

I second what planet436 said.

Also that is quite an expensive build would you not prefer a slightly more expensive case? For like 10 dollars more you could get an antec 300 or HAF 912, which I think are both nicer cases and "better". With the money saved from getting normal ram and the samsung hard drive you might be able to stretch to a lian li A05n case or you may want to spend the money on a more expensive psu. (not that the TX650 is bad just if you wanted modular or crossfire HD 6950s there are better options).

Other than seems pretty awesome

I chose that case because it has front, top, and rear fan slots, and it has a side window which, as we all know, massively improves performance. But no seriously, what would the advantage be of an Antec 300?

[planet436]

HD noise bothers some people more than others. The F3 is well regarded across various forums, I can attest that it is extremely quiet compared to older HD's I've owned and is usually cheaper as well.

Ram speed is not important for sandy bridge since the BCLK/FSB is not linked to the memory frequency. SB overclocking is done through multipliers only, so ram speed is irrelevant. When looking for memory, look for cheapest of reputable brands whose rated voltage is 1.65V or less. These include Corsair, Crucial, G-Skill, Patriot, Mushkin and Kingston.

The mb will support dual channel in both 4 slots.

SSD's you use as a boot drive, installing windows and your commonly used apps on it. Apps you dont use regularly, media and games (if a large collection) you put on a mechanical disk. See http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2069761 for more information. Some games are better than others on SSDs, MMOs are excellent on SSDs other games less so. The way I use mine is to have my steam account on my F3 then use junctioning to play my current games on the ssd. A program does this easily for you

http://www.traynier.com/software/steammover

As c.ruel says I would prob recommend the antec or HAF. Usually you will get less reverberation from components, some cable routing options and better air flow.

[ISHOULDCOCO]

Ram - cheapest 2x4GB you can find. Speed is irrelevant you will not notice the difference. You can populate all the slots if need be but might affect OC potential.

yeah , this is good clear , supported addvice

Can you expand on this statement and give insight toward OC potential ?

please

COCO

[planet436]

If you are overclocking right up to the limit of your chip it might be easier to do this with only 2 ram slots populated rather than all 4. It is also generally easier to run tighter timings with less sticks installed but practically doesn't make much of a difference.

[Pob255]

The cooler master 430 is relatively small inside, it can make cable management a bit tricky, for $20 more you can get the HAF912 which has a lot more room inside, esp behind the motherboard tray, and the hard drive cages can be re-arranged to suit your purpose/taste.
newegg don't seem to have any but have a look for the BitFenix 200mm fans, http://www.bitfenix.com/global/en/ get two of thoes, one for the front and one for the top, that will give you a lot of air flow while remaining very quiet.
if you want to stick with newegg then a pair of the nzxt 800rpm 200mm fans instead http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-004-_-Product

The Antec 300 also has some cable management issues but has a better build quality than the elite 430.

Another option although a bit more expensive CM strom enforcer http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...orm%20enforcer it's the same internal frame as the HAF 912



For the RAM as the new 1155 core i systems overclock by multiplier not fsb ram speed is less of an issue go for cheap known brand eg G.SKILL Value Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-8GBNT http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231424
Yes it lacks fancy heat spreaders but at 1.5v DDR3 shouldn't need them (lower temperatures was one of the big selling points of ddr3 originally)

[BGA]

The cooler master 430 is relatively small inside, it can make cable management a bit tricky, for $20 more you can get the HAF912 which has a lot more room inside, esp behind the motherboard tray, and the hard drive cages can be re-arranged to suit your purpose/taste.
newegg don't seem to have any but have a look for the BitFenix 200mm fans, http://www.bitfenix.com/global/en/ get two of thoes, one for the front and one for the top, that will give you a lot of air flow while remaining very quiet.
if you want to stick with newegg then a pair of the nzxt 800rpm 200mm fans instead http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-004-_-Product

The Antec 300 also has some cable management issues but has a better build quality than the elite 430.

Another option although a bit more expensive CM strom enforcer http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...orm%20enforcer it's the same internal frame as the HAF 912



For the RAM as the new 1155 core i systems overclock by multiplier not fsb ram speed is less of an issue go for cheap known brand eg G.SKILL Value Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-8GBNT http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231424
Yes it lacks fancy heat spreaders but at 1.5v DDR3 shouldn't need them (lower temperatures was one of the big selling points of ddr3 originally)

Thanks for the advice!

Looks like the Enforcer comes with 2 200mm fans already in the case.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...c8f59def8555de

Am I reading that right?

Cooling System

120mm Fans
1 x 120 mm Rear Black Fan, 1200 RPM

200mm Fans
1 x 200mm Top Red LED Fan, 1000 RPM
1 x 200mm Front Red LED Fan

Comes with a 120 and 2x200 already installed? If so, that would be less expensive than the HAF912 because the fans are already there. I like this one too because it has that side window.





Also, the 2gb 6950 is only $10 more than the 1gb version, after rebates. If I don't run 1920x??? am I really just throwing away that $10?

[Pob255]

For just $10 more you might as well go for the 2gb version

As to the fans I'm not 100%, I know it does come with a 200mm red led fan in the front I'm not sure if it comes with a 2nd one or not, but I don't think so.
If you've got a couple of 120mm fans already then you could just use them.

However I'll admit cases esp cheap cases are tough as you get a lot of cases in the US that we in the UK don't and the prices for the cases we both get vary greatly

Having a look at newegg for cheap cases
NZXT gama http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811146061 it's the same internals as the Evo beta, M59 and Hades, basically the same as 430 but with the hard drive cage rotated through 90 degrees again cableing is not the easiest but it can be done and you can really pack a lot of hard ware into these cases.
HEC Blitz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811121096 this is basically the same as the Silverstone Precision SST-PS05 however they've increased the plastic top bezel's height slightly so fans can be fit inside the bezel itself, giving you a bit more internal room to play with.
Finally the thermaltake V3 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811133094 this is the same case inside as the 430 but is $10 cheaper.

Also have a look at the Zalman Z9 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811235026 not quite as much space behind the motherboard tray as the HAF 912 but still more than most (it actually has a mount for a 2.5" SSD behind the motherboard tray

[c.ruel]

Newegg does have the HAF 912, it is here it says it is in stock. Only $9 more than the coolermaster you were looking at.

[Tattysnuc]

If you are overclocking right up to the limit of your chip it might be easier to do this with only 2 ram slots populated rather than all 4. It is also generally easier to run tighter timings with less sticks installed but practically doesn't make much of a difference.

I've not found the memory to limit overclocking when using 4 slots vs 2, up to 4.9Ghz on my 2600K.

Overclocking the CPU does not now depend on the BCLK for K series processors. Get yourself some adequate ram, and don't overspend on it as in real world application it makes little difference, compared to overclocking the CPU only.

I've found the below link helpful in understanding what sort of values people are setting:

http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/...post-your.html

For my motherboard I found the following link invaluable:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1578110

There's probably one for your chosen motherboard there. Bit-tech did an article on overclocking the MSI board which can be found http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...ore-i5-2500k/5

The only other comment that I'd raise is your choice of power supply seems to be quite near the power limit you are proposing to use. I'd personally add a hundred watts or so to what you've proposed because you've little scope for upgrade or overclocking headroom. CPU power increases at a "squared" rate so keep plenty of overhead for this. I'm not up to date on with the best power supplies out there, but it might be worth PM'ing Catthefifth to see what he can recommend.

I'd also look at an aftermarket CPU cooler. Something like the BeQueit Dark Advanced, Thermaltake Frio or a Corsair H60/70 would set you up for a long time of overclocking fun...

Cheers, and good luck!

Tatty

[BGA]

What is the difference between P67 and Z68?

[Pob255]

The Z68 has the onchip gpu active (if you don't have a graphics card plugged in) it also allows you to use an SSD as a hard drive cache.

Other than that, nothing.

[planet436]

If you don't have a spare gfx card lying around, then an advantage of the Z68 is being able to use the onboard video if your discrete one breaks down. Whether you think its worth the extra $ for peace of mind is up to you.

More reading on SSD caching here if you want http://forums.storagereview.com/inde...ge-technology/.

It's very easy with MBs to image yourself needing all the features of them at some indeterminate time in the future. Unless you are absolutely sure you would make use of features in near future or currently then save yourself money.