Why was I told this, when it isn't true?

[ExceededGoku]

I keep pointing you at the last link in my sig.

There is officially no such thing as 1066Mhz RAM, unofficially there is though.

The RAM will never run automatically at 1066Mhz on ANY motherboard, instead, it will run at the fastest official specification that exists for DDR2 which is 800Mhz (PC2-6400).

No he's right, there is no such thing as a motherboard with support for 1066Mhz straight out of the box... unless the motherboard AND memory come with a technology such as EPP where the bios can read the chip inside the memory and set the right voltage and speed, which appears to not be teh case in this situation.
If you had got the Asus and had just set 1066 as the memory speed you would be complaining to us today about how you are getting blue screens and other such problems (boot, hdd corruption, etc.) because you didn't specify the voltage, and/or timings.
The guy you spoke to at Scan knew exactly what he was talking about (probably) because every motherboard supports 1066Mhz RAM as long as you intend to put in the time to get it to run at that speed. Not scans fault at all, you should have done proper research I'm afraid (sorry if this sounds like I'm placing the blame on you, but you should really have asked around about the protocol involved with 1066 RAM!)
Anyway I hope this makes things clear for you, I haven't read all the posts btw... lol

[Saracen]

So far as I can see, there are several points here.

1) The originally ordered board supported 1066 in a way described by Scan's product description as "native". If you look, for example, at LN19783 Asus P5K Premium/WiFi-AP, the website description says

The P5K Premium also comes equipped with built-in native DDR2 1066 memory support that can be overclocked to DDR2 1400.

On the other hand, if you look at LN18699 Asus P5K, the description includes "DDR2 667/800/1066*" and the * says

* The chipset officially supports the memory frequency up to DDR2 800MHz. Tuned by ASUS Super Memspeed Technology, this motherboard natively supports up to DDR2 1066MHz

At the very least, if these both refer to identical motherboard support, it's a highly misleading way of describing it, singling one out for a qualification and describing the other as "native". I would suggest any reasonable person would interpret that as one having proper support for 1066 and the other not.

2) Exactly how is "native" defined?

3) What AD-15 was told on the phone.

If his opening post accurately describes what happened, when the board switch was initially offered, he asked about "native support" on the Abit.

So I immediately checked to see whether it would NATIVELY support 1066, like the Asus. Nothing on the net about 1066, so, worried, I asked Scan. I was told yes, it does natively support 1066.

After receiving the alternative board, he was then told

Why did I think this? Because it looked like I had to go through a lot of different things to get the RAM to run at it's rated speed. However, I remained optimistic, and actually asked Scan via email and telephone. The answer? No, the board does not natively support 1066, as I was specifically told by Scan.

Those two statements would seem to be mutually exclusive, so one or the other must be wrong.

However, it may well be that all this boils down to is a lack of consistency in the two descriptions, and two different people at Scan meaning and/or understanding different things by "native support".

Personally, if the Abit can be configured to provide the necessary support, then regardless of the ins and outs of what "native" might mean, then providing Scan (or people here) can advise on the necessary settings and tweakings to do the job, I'd have thought that was all that really mattered. So it may not be possible to do it with one setting, or autodetect, but does it really matter? To me, no. Providing I can get it configured and performing without spending excessive time setting up and configuring, then no, it wouldn't.

But ...... AD-15 did, after all, make a point of asking the question and, from the account in the opening post, was told the Abit does something when it seems it doesn't. He would, IMHO, be within his rights to be a bit miffed about that, because I would be too in those circumstances.

I'm sure, however, that Scan can and will clarify the situation and deal with it accordingly.

[SHare]

Alot of this is the manufacturers constantly pushing the 'bleeding edge' tech that they haven't quite sussed out themselves, leaving it to places such as this for people to come and find help from the overclockers that are constantly pushing the technologies. Its advertising aimed at the overclocking market, but it is certainly hugely misleading to anyone inexperienced in the general market. I really think it the 'DIY computing' is going to take off as a mass market then stuff like this needs to be clamped down on by the manufacturers.

They should be making it clear in their advertising what is involved to achieve the specs and speeds they advertise and its something I find difficult to blame on the retailers for reading the boxes.

[Harkin]

Don't know if this will help, but I've tried to find some clear definition of what 'native' means in that context.

1: Not counting, or prior to applying, any of: scaling, upconversion, downconversion, encoding, decodiing, modulation, demodulation, etc. For example the native resolution of "720p HDTV" is 720 pixels high by 1280 pixels wide but a particular TV set with a native 4:3 aspect ratio resolution of 640 by 480 on an LCD panel can convert a 720p 16:9 program to fit by displaying half the program's resolution horizontally and vertically, 640 by 360.

With the way Asus try and word things in their manuals and Bios, it doesn't surprise me that they have made it so unclear/tricky to get what they mean. But I think what they were trying to say is that you can easily get 1066Mhz on your Ram by simply selecting it in Bios, without having to apply or configure any ratios what so ever.

[iranu]

I remember a similar thing with the KT400 chipsets. They had a list of ram that worked at 400mhz (2x200) but it 400mhz wasn't officially supported even though the board/chipset could.

Scan have sorted it through their tech support so why all the crying? If you had bought a board, got it home and it didn't run at 1066 then you'd have a case and I'd be fully on your side to return the board/PC.

There is a large difference between an employee knowing that something is not true and telling you the opposite and someone telling you something without knowing they are technically wrong. The first is a lie the second is an untruth. Remember you won't always be dealing with the same people and "native" can mean anything. It would not be in a sellers interest to con you with parts not upto spec. Your parts are upto spec they just needed adjustment and the seller helped you make that adjustment.

[not_my_ip]

In some point AD-15 is right, maybe a lie is a little bit to strong word. But anyway what if someone who bought would not know much all about, putting all together is no problem, fit only in one way.
But as he mentioned one of the boards have just simple setting in bios 800/1066 and other don't have tit so user have to go to more advanced options. And what is some who buy this MB is not so advenced user and is told that it supports natively 1066 and he try to run it and it doesn't. Such person find him self in very difficult position to solve by him self.
That's maybe what it is, all about it

[markbrown83]

In some point AD-15 is right, maybe a lie is a little bit to strong word. But anyway what if someone who bought would not know much all about, putting all together is no problem, fit only in one way.
But as he mentioned one of the boards have just simple setting in bios 800/1066 and other don't have tit so user have to go to more advanced options. And what is some who buy this MB is not so advenced user and is told that it supports natively 1066 and he try to run it and it doesn't. Such person find him self in very difficult position to solve by him self.
That's maybe what it is, all about it

Yeah I agree with that, it is maybe just because he doesn't know what to do and he just expected it to support 1066.

However, with a little help from us guys he should be able to get it running at 1066 with no problems.

[Clunk]

Native support in this case (and any other motherboard that claims it, barring EPP boards), is the 1066Mhz divider.

Go into the bios, you are presented with this.



Simply scroll to the 1067Mhz divider and choose that one, set your RAM voltage to whatever it is meant to be, set your timings if need be, save and exit. Your RAM is now running at the speed that it is rated at.

The problem here, doesnt lie with the motherboard, it is the RAM that doesnt have 1066Mhz programmed into its SPD table.

You can go and buy ANY memory from ANY manufacturer, and ANY motherboard from ANY other manufacturer, and they will always default to DDR2-800Mhz (PC2-6400), with the exception of maybe the Nvidia boards, which use EPP, but that is another can of worms.

Bottom line is, your board supports the RAM, but the RAM requires setting manually.

[ExceededGoku]

listen to Clunk
If you need help on setting your memory then follow these instructions!

[Fraz]

Prob best to use this pic, as it's an abit board we're talking about:

[Clunk]

Doesnt really matter what the board is, the principle is the same

Another one for the OP - load up CPU-Z and have a look what it says your RAM is.

[badass]

I keep pointing you at the last link in my sig.

There is officially no such thing as 1066Mhz RAM, unofficially there is though.

The RAM will never run automatically at 1066Mhz on ANY motherboard, instead, it will run at the fastest official specification that exists for DDR2 which is 800Mhz (PC2-6400).

Exactily. JEDEC have not included 1066 MHz in their DDR2 Spec, only 800 MHz
Just like they only go to DDR400 for DDR and DDR3-1600 for DDR3.

[AD-15]

hello,

Thankyou for all the advice guys!

So far as I can see, there are several points here.

1) The originally ordered board supported 1066 in a way described by Scan's product description as "native". If you look, for example, at LN19783 Asus P5K Premium/WiFi-AP, the website description says


Quote:
The P5K Premium also comes equipped with built-in native DDR2 1066 memory support that can be overclocked to DDR2 1400.

On the other hand, if you look at LN18699 Asus P5K, the description includes "DDR2 667/800/1066*" and the * says


Quote:
* The chipset officially supports the memory frequency up to DDR2 800MHz. Tuned by ASUS Super Memspeed Technology, this motherboard natively supports up to DDR2 1066MHz

At the very least, if these both refer to identical motherboard support, it's a highly misleading way of describing it, singling one out for a qualification and describing the other as "native". I would suggest any reasonable person would interpret that as one having proper support for 1066 and the other not.

2) Exactly how is "native" defined?

3) What AD-15 was told on the phone.

If his opening post accurately describes what happened, when the board switch was initially offered, he asked about "native support" on the Abit.


Quote:
So I immediately checked to see whether it would NATIVELY support 1066, like the Asus. Nothing on the net about 1066, so, worried, I asked Scan. I was told yes, it does natively support 1066.

After receiving the alternative board, he was then told


Quote:
Why did I think this? Because it looked like I had to go through a lot of different things to get the RAM to run at it's rated speed. However, I remained optimistic, and actually asked Scan via email and telephone. The answer? No, the board does not natively support 1066, as I was specifically told by Scan.

Those two statements would seem to be mutually exclusive, so one or the other must be wrong.

However, it may well be that all this boils down to is a lack of consistency in the two descriptions, and two different people at Scan meaning and/or understanding different things by "native support".

Personally, if the Abit can be configured to provide the necessary support, then regardless of the ins and outs of what "native" might mean, then providing Scan (or people here) can advise on the necessary settings and tweakings to do the job, I'd have thought that was all that really mattered. So it may not be possible to do it with one setting, or autodetect, but does it really matter? To me, no. Providing I can get it configured and performing without spending excessive time setting up and configuring, then no, it wouldn't.

But ...... AD-15 did, after all, make a point of asking the question and, from the account in the opening post, was told the Abit does something when it seems it doesn't. He would, IMHO, be within his rights to be a bit miffed about that, because I would be too in those circumstances.

I'm sure, however, that Scan can and will clarify the situation and deal with it accordingly.

Saracen, you are 100% correct here. Yes, it may be just a tiny bit more hassle, it can easily be worked around, there might not be that much difference between the way the two boards achieve 1066. However, I made this point in my first post, the only problem I have is that I was told two contradicting things, the latter which was more dissappointing, I was told only AFTER I paid for and received the system. No matter WHAT natively supported means, no matter what the difference between 'non-native support' and 'native support' is, I expect to be old the truth. Scan could have easily explained to me the Abit does NOT natively support the 1066, and that I need to set dividers etc, which is also what the Asus does anyway! So, that way, I could have saved myself a LOT of hassle and time, and that of the people helping my on this board. Furthermore, Scan did not bother (during their so called quality controlled build scheme, during which they had an extra day to do this) to set the motherboard to 1066. I specifically made it clear I wanted the memory to run at 1066, over and over. However, when I make these sort of statements, the answer I get is that the build team would take care of everything, and set the system up so that it may perform at it's best. Not what has happened here.

In addition, the only help I received on this entire issue is how to set the dividers and voltage, no answer on why I was told this and this.

Definetly a self-build next time!

[scrandman]

Going back a few CPU types, on socket A absolutely every board would default to running the FSB at 100 on the first boot - you had to manual change the BIOS to 133, 166 or 200 depending on the correct FSB for the CPU you were using. This was generally accepted as the way things were back then - no one argued that the motherboards of that era didn't natively support higher FSB CPUs.

Oh yeah, and the RAM speed often had to be manually set too.

[Mossy]

hello,

When I finally made an order for a PC I've been waiting for for a very long time, from Scan, I specified all the specs, and requested an Asus P35 board, which I ENSURED was 1066 compatible (natively). Scan put a quote together for me, with this board, and the build was started. However, half way through, there was a clearance issue with the hardware, and the board was changed. Because it was on a tight schedule, they changed it to a different board they chose themselves, and sent me an email. The board was the Abit IP-35 Pro. I've heard it was a better board, so I was happy, except for one thing. The item title on scan's site had 'DDR2 667/800' written in it, no 1066. So I immediately checked to see whether it would NATIVELY support 1066, like the Asus. Nothing on the net about 1066, so, worried, I asked Scan. I was told yes, it does natively support 1066.

When I got it, I had problems from the start. It was running at 800, not 1066. So I started posting and emailing while I was on holiday, I got help from here (as I'm sure those of you who so kindly helped me will know) on how to resolve it. Scan took a little longer, but the end result was the same. The board did not appear to natively support 1066. Why did I think this? Because it looked like I had to go through a lot of different things to get the RAM to run at it's rated speed. However, I remained optimistic, and actually asked Scan via email and telephone. The answer? No, the board does not natively support 1066, as I was specifically told by Scan. So, basically, I was lied to.

I only went through with the order as Scan had previously earned my trust as an extremely excellent retailer. Why should this have happened?

Alot of you, rightly I'm sure, think what I'm saying is silly, and the problem can easily be worked around by the solutions given by so many on this site. However, the fact remains that I paid for a 1066 board, and that's not what I received. Furthermore, I was not told the truth regarding the matter. All I can really say, despite the advice tech support gave me on working around the problem, is that I'm extremely disappointed, and I will think twice before ever doing this sort of thing again.

Just to clarity that I put the order through and I never said it natively supported 1066 AD-15 asked if it would support 1066 memory which I answered yes it will support it. As as for being called a Liar I find quite offensive considering the time and extras I included in this order which I bent over backwards to get sorted because the PC had to be shipped before the holiday as mentioned in the post. The technical team did indeed configure the memory at the native speed which was an oversight on my part be easily solvable which the technical team have advised.

That facts are the order was pushed through in a very quick time due to AD-15's Holiday.
The motherboard was changed from Asus to Abit because of the issue with GTX cards and SATA ports, the motherboard was discussed with AD-15 so the chioce of this motherboard was agreed as the best option. Scan would never change a component without agrrement with the customer.
To post I said it natively supported 1066 in not the truth and then calling me a liar is slightly hypocritical.

How is the mahcine running at 800 rather than 1066 having problems from the start?

I am always here to help and the problem with the memory as CLUNK has post is an easy issue to solve.

Regards

[AD-15]

hello,

Just to clarity that I put the order through and I never said it natively supported 1066 AD-15 asked if it would support 1066 memory which I answered yes it will support it. As as for being called a Liar I find quite offensive considering the time and extras I included in this order which I bent over backwards to get sorted because the PC had to be shipped before the holiday as mentioned in the post. The technical team did indeed configure the memory at the native speed which was an oversight on my part be easily solvable which the technical team have advised.

That facts are the order was pushed through in a very quick time due to AD-15's Holiday.
The motherboard was changed from Asus to Abit because of the issue with GTX cards and SATA ports, the motherboard was discussed with AD-15 so the chioce of this motherboard was agreed as the best option. Scan would never change a component without agrrement with the customer.
To post I said it natively supported 1066 in not the truth and then calling me a liar is slightly hypocritical.

How is the mahcine running at 800 rather than 1066 having problems from the start?

I am always here to help and the problem with the memory as CLUNK has post is an easy issue to solve.

Regards

I am sorry, but I did indeed ask if it was natively supported. I knew at the time many boards could SUPPORT 1066, albeit with the change in settings as previously described, and so I made sure that the Abit could NATIVELY support 1066. Granted, now I understand that both the Asus and Abit do more or less the same thing, but I should have been told this, rather than being told it has native support for 1066, which now I understand is probably a marketing term used by Asus. The fact that the Abit motherboard can do the same as the Asus is not a reason to tell me that it natively supports the 1066.

The technical team did indeed configure the memory at the native speed which was an oversight on my part be easily solvable which the technical team have advised.

What are you trying to say? The team did not set it to 1066, which is why this discussion is taking place!

That facts are the order was pushed through in a very quick time due to AD-15's Holiday.

If Scan can not do this, then why was I told it would be Ok? There is nothing wrong with it, Scan is actually quicker than most builders, but if it cannot be done, I should have been told to just wait till I got back. Infact, I was told it would arrive before the 12th, it arrived on the 13th. Granted, the delays aren't Scan's fault, but a large company like this should take into account things like this can happen. I am sorry, but the fact that the order was done very quickly is not an excuse for anything, I'm not even complaining about it infact, it's not part of this discussion. I'm talking about the memory.

The motherboard was changed from Asus to Abit because of the issue with GTX cards and SATA ports, the motherboard was discussed with AD-15 so the chioce of this motherboard was agreed as the best option. Scan would never change a component without agrrement with the customer.

Well, I was sent an email concerning the change. I never got a call asking which board I wanted instead of the Asus board. All Scan did was choose the next board up. I could not call and say no, I don't want this board, I get home just before Scan closes. There was also a strict time schedule (which should have been forseen), I didn't want to go making more changes, further delaying the system, and I can't just tell Scan to leave it until I get back. In case you need the proof that it went ahead without any permission, here is the email I received:

How is the mahcine running at 800 rather than 1066 having problems from the start?

Because I asked for it to be set to 1066, it wasn't, I didn't know how to at the time, and to me that is a problem.