Scan & Intel CPU Warranty Issues

[wesleyaldred]

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[Supershanks]

Is there an web page or site i can contact please i'm getting rather down on hanging on the telephone over this matter. I was also wondering if you had a contact rather then the general section which i could have gone to on friday.

thanks

Only real thing i can find is thisGeneral Warranty Information

[JPreston]

I should have an E8400 arriving tomorrow which I await with some concern. I guess there will be a few of us here who have ordered in the last week all receiving CPUs from the same batch in the next few days, all in the same boat.

I don't have an E6750 or similar to benchmark against but needless to say if I experience the problems outlined above I shall not be calling Intel to discuss, but will instead hoy it straight back to Scan as is my statutory right. Hoping it won't come to that though

[Blitzen]

Yes, if Intel verify that the temperatures are outside of their threshold for that CPU running with the stock cooler then the item can be returned to Scan within 28 days from purchase for a refund.

Obviously as per my earlier post supershank will need to speak to Intel to verify this.

Wesley

I wanted one of these and thats why this case is so interesting.

The Wolfdale is supposed to be cooler. If its not, and, as is possible, you have a faulty batch, shouldnt it be Scan that should sort this out with Intel and not the customer.
Regardless whether its a batch issue or not, surely you should still be the mediators. The sale was with you and not Intel.

My opinion of Scan is high but when i read about you washing your hands of a potential batch wide problem (whether it is or not) then you are getting your focus very very wrong!

Where is this legendary serivce we hear so much about?

[kalniel]

The Wolfdale is supposed to be cooler.

Do Intel or Scan claim that anywhere? If so, and you can prove that it's not actually cooler, you might have some leverage there.

The whole HSF thing surprises me.. only in that Intel seemingly are ok with third party coolers. My retail AMD came with very clear warranty instructions that said the warranty was void with anything other than AMDs retail HSF and thermal paste.

Which kind of makes sense in that the warranty can't know how good the third party cooler is and AMD don't seem to have a certification program that classes certain coolers, pastes and installation engineers as meeting their standards.

[Clunk]

Do Intel or Scan claim that anywhere? If so, and you can prove that it's not actually cooler, you might have some leverage there.

The whole HSF thing surprises me.. only in that Intel seemingly are ok with third party coolers. My retail AMD came with very clear warranty instructions that said the warranty was void with anything other than AMDs retail HSF and thermal paste.

Which kind of makes sense in that the warranty can't know how good the third party cooler is and AMD don't seem to have a certification program that classes certain coolers, pastes and installation engineers as meeting their standards.

You need to read back a bit mate

The heatsink thing is sorted now, see Wesley's post.

There are also a few links to the Intel website claiming they are cooler.

I also agree with Blitzen - why should the customer have to deal with Intel direct?

What if Intel agree that supershanks's CPU is within guidelines (temp wise), but doesn't indeed run cooler than the previous generation CPU? Isn't that false advertising? Misleading? That would be messy wouldn't it?

[wesleyaldred]

Intel Corporation - Welcome to E-mail Support

[Blitzen]

Do Intel or Scan claim that anywhere? If so, and you can prove that it's not actually cooler, you might have some leverage there.

The whole HSF thing surprises me.. only in that Intel seemingly are ok with third party coolers. My retail AMD came with very clear warranty instructions that said the warranty was void with anything other than AMDs retail HSF and thermal paste.

Which kind of makes sense in that the warranty can't know how good the third party cooler is and AMD don't seem to have a certification program that classes certain coolers, pastes and installation engineers as meeting their standards.

Its technology is different than the previous generation(s) 65nm -->> 45nm
It consumes less power.
To have a Quad core running at similar temps to a dual core is madness. Its blatant that these cores aren't correct somehow.

Both of these factors should automatically make the CPU run cooler.

[JPreston]

Both of these factors should automatically make the CPU run cooler.

Not only should, but every review I read praised the chips low thermal output. Either there is a faulty batch, or the review samples perform radically different to the production chips, which are inexplicably gypsy. It's like buying an M3 on the basis of a road test in What Car magazine, only to have it delivered and upon complaining about it's lacklustre performance be told by the dealer that it falls within BMWs specified performance range of doing 0 - 60mph in something between 5.8 and 39 seconds...

I'm interested to read how everyone else gets on but for me, if my chip runs at radically different temps from the reviews I'll return it under the distance selling regs and let Scan be the ones to email/phone Intel . Have to say, I'm a little disappointed and very surprised at scan's behavior in regards to this situation.

[Saracen]

.... Have to say, I'm a little disappointed and very surprised at scan's behavior in regards to this situation.

Scan are caught rather in the middle on this, though. After all, they get what they're sent, just like we do.

If they get a load of chips returned, they're not going to just want to write them off - they're going to want them to be replaced by Intel. And if Intel won't, Scan have a problem. So a lot seems to depend on whether the chips are actually faulty, or are not "as described" by Intel, or are viewed as being disappointing in terms of temp performance but within spec.

As for returning it under the Distance Selling Regs, that might work but it also might not. Yes, you can return products and do so without giving a reason. And no, though some have tried, it's not the case that they can simply reject returns if the products have been taken out of the packaging.

But does that mean you can install, test and then return? Only a court can answer that. But the guidance given by the OFT and the DTI suggests that the buyer is entitled to "inspect" the goods, in much the way that you would be able to had you bought them in person over the counter. That definition isn't actually embedded in the law, but it is certainly the "official" view and is consistent with the intent of the DSR in the first place. About the only thing the Regs actually say is that you, as the buyer, have a legal duty to retain the goods, take "reasonable care" of them while in his care, and return (or make available for collection) as stipulated by the DSR.

Actually, strictly speaking, the retailer MUST refund, and within 30 days at the most, after cancellation, regardless of the state of the goods or even if they haven't been returned. But they could then have grounds for a civil action against the consumer if the goods aren't returned or, when they are, if they aren't in a condition that is consistent with "reasonable care" having been taken.

Naturally, "reasonable care" isn't defined. It's for a court to interpret. But if the guidance from the OFT was used as a yardstick, if you bought over the counter, would any shop let you install and test prior to buying? Would Scan, if the consumer went to them in person? I can guess the answer.

So, and of course it's just my opinion, if a CPU had clearly been used, would Scan issue a refund, or would you have to take Small Claims Court action to get your money back? If you did do so, would you win? And if you did, would they then take court action right back on the basis that you'd failed the "reasonable care" duty? And if they did, who'd win?

And is it worth the risk of the hassle?

Personally, were I in your shoes, with the current doubts over this chip, I would cancel under the DSR and on arrival of the chip, send it straight back without ever opening the box. I certainly wouldn't install it to find out whether it exhibited the problem or not, because if it did, it might set off a chain of events that would be more hassle than it was worth.

For reference, I'm upgrading four of my systems (a server, a media server and two workstations). The two workstations were going to be E8400s, but until this temperature issue is resolved clearly, I'll either hold off on the order, or simply revert to Q6600/E6750, which is what I was going to do until the 8x00s launched. But I'm not prepared to take a chance on the 8400 right now.

[Nickg]

Scan are caught rather in the middle on this, though. After all, they get what they're sent, just like we do.

If they get a load of chips returned, they're not going to just want to write them off - they're going to want them to be replaced by Intel. And if Intel won't, Scan have a problem. So a lot seems to depend on whether the chips are actually faulty, or are not "as described" by Intel, or are viewed as being disappointing in terms of temp performance but within spec.

As for returning it under the Distance Selling Regs, that might work but it also might not. Yes, you can return products and do so without giving a reason. And no, though some have tried, it's not the case that they can simply reject returns if the products have been taken out of the packaging.

.

yes but the customer contract is with SCAN not intel. SCANs contract is with Intel.

if scan have bought a batch of dodgy cpu's they need to go back up the chain and sort it out, not force their customers down this route.

how can you return under the DSR after opening and using the CPU thats not how it works.

[Supershanks]

Well Intel Support Questionnaire filled in & sent.

I am having heat issues with my E8400 I have referred this to my retailer on their support site http://forums.hexus.net/1328212-post34.html , they in turn have told me top contact you.

I purchased the cpu to go in a HTPC i plan to build. I bought it on the basis of
PRESS KIT - First 45nm Chips: Eco-Friendly. Faster. ‘Cooler’. , looking at the comparison with my main q6600 it's not giving me the temps i expect , bottom line with those temps i don't want a red hot htpc.

I have the CPu-z dumps to show my DTS values on load & idle. & also coretemp logs read from the cpu, should you require them

I have read that there may be some issues with the sensors
& am unsure if this is the case , As noted in my tests on idle the core 1 Temperature appears frozen at 43C absolute DTS of 62C.
I would like clarrification if at all possible :-
1) Are my results within the normal operating window ??
and / or
2) Are my temperatures overstated due to inaccurate or faulty sensors.??

Thank you

They reckon to turn the request round in a maximum of 5 days. not sure where that will leave me in terms of any DSR options I might have.

Scan are caught rather in the middle on this, though. After all, they get what they're sent, just like we do.

Thanks's for that Saracen , of course I appreciate that, but at the moment i feel more like a victim in a traffic accident.

[JPreston]

Thanks's for that Saracen , of course I appreciate that, but at the moment i feel more like a victim in a traffic accident.

Indeed, the difference between scan and the end consumer is that scan are in the business of marking up items for retail sale and making a profit thereon - they therefore bear the risk of returns and TBH I would not have contacted intel at all.

That said I'm still going to take a punt on my back-ordered E8400 because:

1. it's entirely possible it will be fine.
2. it's cheaper than E6750 and probably is still cooler than one running at 3Gig.
3. the issue may well be that temps are over-reported and correctable with future BIOS updates, rather than real temperature problem.
4. In the event of a real issue i trust scan to do right by their customers,their current responses to this issue notwithstanding.

Let's see what I am saying in a weeks time

[Oldjim]

For comparison I have just built my latest PC with a E6750 CPU and Scythe Mine heat sink with 1,000 rpm stock fan from Scan and the CPU idles at 22 deg C and never gets above 36 deg C. I am really impressed as it is also very quiet.

[Supershanks]

3. the issue may well be that temps are over-reported and correctable with future BIOS updates, rather than real temperature problem.

AS reported previously the sensor is in the cpu. so a bios update to correect it is pretty well impossible.

How is the bios to check if the sensor is faulty, it's more likely batch based than CPU Type basrd. I.e some E8400 are ok other not.

If the sensors are faulty then, i'd not be happy, but at least i'd have some comfort that there was a chance that the Cpu may perform temperature wise as per the cooler blurb. I could use it for the purpose I bought it.

[Hicks12]

Well mine runs hot too, anywhere from 40-50 idle now, upto about 60 or just over when gaming, degree C that is. It also is effecting my asus p5n-d as its making that run hotter as a result(im thinking it would). But i have managed to cool that down to 40 idle instead of 56. My board is brand new(released on like the 30th) and that would mean the bios shouldnt be the problem for supporting 45nm atleast, working in america as far as i can see.
This is using stock cooling and about 5 case fans.

Second cpu tends to stay around 40-50.

I will be watching this as i indeed think i have a faulty one and tbh i bought this as it runs cooler,ment to. So in theory it should last longer. Great work intel, no probs in america but in europe it =fail so far xD

edit: ok looking at the file of coretemp i can see my cpu hit 62C and the second core hit 56C, not good at all
edit2: wow compareing these results to the guy(sorry didnt look at name ) who tested his q6600 against his e8400 it shows my cpu is running hotter then the quad core, fail. This must be a problem as my heatsink/fan are properly seated and working.