SCAN bad for RMA's?

[firsttimebuyer]

I must admit I thought it was clear. Not terribly well-worded, but clear. It's a bit intimidating if you read it quickly, but if you take it section at a time, it did seem clear to me. I might not have worded it quite that way, but they do have a balance to strike between wording it so that it's clear to read, but also wording it so that it achieves the legal objectives too. And lawyers aren't exactly known for their plain, clear, concise use of English.

The way I read it, ftb, is that can have rejected the RMA. It doesn't meet their criteria. But as I said earlier, their guarantee isn't the only thing you can rely on. You can still pursue your legal rights, but it may well involve going to court. Or .... you can see if the manufacturer warranty covers you. And that, it seems to me, is what Scan are saying with that waiver. Scan've rejected the RMA, but the manufacturer might not, and they're prepared to send it to them if you wish. Alternatively, they'll sent it back to you and you could take it up with Asus, or pursue you legal options.

But in any event, it reads to me like Scan's decision is to reject the RMA.

As for a second opinion, well yeah, perhaps. Asus may look at it and decide it's component failure. Or they might justreplace on a goodwill basis. Either way, you'd get a replacement. But I can't see Asus' opinion having much effect on Scan's decision.

If Asus conclude the same way as Scan, it reinforces Scan's decision. And it's hard to see how Asus could say it's a component fault and then refuse to replace the board and leave it to Scan to do so. If Scan had had Asus' opinion already that it was faulty, no doubt Scan would have replaced the board and got it replaced to them by Asus.

In cases where it's clear, or at least within whatever criteria Asus have established, that the board is faulty, Scan will replace because they're covered by Asus. But if Scan replace it when they don't legally have to, and Asus then turn round and reject it when Scan send it to them, Scan pick up the cost. And if the experts assess the board as not having an inherent fault, why should Scan pay to replace it when they're not obliged to? Goodwill only goes so far. In my tailor's case, he's got a very different market and a very different customer demographic. I'd guess he's got a very different margin structure, too. He can afford to offer much more goodwill. But computer component margins are pretty tight, and these days, you really need to be shifting volume to make it worthwhile at all.

You say one thing and then another, your all over the place, one minute you state that all it means is they are asking to return it to ASUS for a second opinion, now your saying it clearly states that it did not meet their criteria and SCAN have rejected the RMA but ASUS might not.

Lets just leave it at that, its not important what the waiver asks, its signed and sent. Others can see it so they can make their own mind up how clear or not it is, not all of us have studied law or have a indepth knowledge of it.

Jeez what a guy you are , you would make a great lawyer ^^, i was getting really confused. I read it and understood it to mean exactly what you quote above, so i wondered why i thought it was inclear before and then i remember its because you said it just meant they would like permission to send it to ASUS for a second opinion. So yes then if you go by what you say above then its clear i agree.

[Ferral]

It literally needs checking out by the manufacturer. They need your permission to do this as it is your property regardless of where it is. In the past I have come across boards that have hairline cracks in the PCB itself. It looks perfectly ok, may even install ok, but then starts to do weird and wonderful things like constantly having to reinstall drivers etc

Scan are sending it to ASUS for a second opinion to try and find out exactly what is wrong with it. It could be a faulty batch or anything. Either way, ASUS will manage to find out what is wrong with the board right down to the individual components. On a test bed there is virtually no way of actually going into that much detail, it either works or it doesn't. It looks like they may be a little unsure as to the fault hence the manufacturers 2nd opinion.

Once tested by ASUS, provided it comes down to some sort of manufacturing fault or component and not user damage. Scan will then get it sorted for you, pretty pronto also knowing these guys. (Please correct me if I am wrong)

I would definately not look at this as as a disclaimer on Scans behalf, my ASUS board I think there is something wrong with the CPU socket. Looks like mounting bracket holes for the heatsink are to close together and under quick inspection instantly looks like the board is bent where the back plate has been put on. Now take that into consideration, if I send it back to Scan they would most likely say the user has done it as the board is bent. So in this case I tell them what I believe and say its fine to send it off to get it checked out. This is where ASUS would most definately say it is a manufacturing fault and nothing the end user has done.

The RMA process does take time and take them sending it in for 2nd opinion a good thing that they are doing for you. Like I said ASUS tech support is pretty horendous with living in the UK, wouldn't wish it on anyone!

Initially I did feel the exact same way you do, just search the Scan bit of the forum for my username and you will find the thread where I was really peeved with them. They did get it sorted for me though, this is where Scan do stand out. They have a really good team there and they do their upmost best for you.

Just chill a bit and lets wait and see what ASUS come up with.

[Saracen]

So basically what thise tells me is that SCAN is not just wanting a second opinion, they flat out suspect i damaged it? Maybe its because they remember me from the CPU incident? Be nice if SCAN could take a pic and post it on this thread so others could have a look and see if their suspicions are justified.

Just remember the more you try and reassure other customers or potantial customers that SCAN is pretty good for RMA's of this nature and most of the time they go on the side of the Customer (obviously SCAN does not want to lose business due to people getting the wrong idea), the more your making me feel like i am being singled out and treated like i have done something wrong.

So lets just leave it at that, SCAN's great, they always look after their customers, buy from SCAN, i am just "unlucky", ok we get it.

I'm not trying to reassure anyone that Scan are great. I'm simply giving an opinion, based on reading a LOT of these threads, over several years, and seeing how they turn out most of the time.

You've put your opinion. I've put mine, and I've said what it's based on, including that I've never bought from Scan.

And no, I've never said they flat-out suspect you damaged it, partly because neither you nor I know what they suspect. I've said the exact opposite - that my assessment is that they don't know what caused the problem, but suspect that it wasn't inherent. I've given a range of examples of what it might be, and you damaging it is merely one of them. It could have been that moth or fly I mentioned, and if it was, even you might not know it .... unless you found a barbecued moth or fly. It might have been a mains surge. And that's just a couple of examples of possibilities. If it wasn't an inherent fault, it doesn't matter what caused it.

I don't need to try to reassure people about Scan. They can read for themselves. And decide how they wish, based on what they read. It's you I've been trying to help, by trying to explain what appears to be going on, and doing it as an impartial third party. I have no axe to grind for Scan. I've never bought from them, never met anyone that works there, don't live anywhere near them, am not related to anyone there, and I think I've spoken to Scan staff a grand total of ONCE, to suggest a product for them. Also, I don't work for Hexus, and have never received so much as a single penny from involvement with this site, either in money or any other form.

I do not have an ulterior motive. And it seems a lot of time spent trying to help isn't appreciated. So I tell you what ..... I'll leave you to get on with it on your own. If other people raise issues, I'll respond to them, but you can sort it out how you wish. And believe it or not, I hope Asus replace it for you. But if they don't, I don't think you've a leg to stand on legally. And your attitude in this thread won't have increased your chances of a goodwill gesture. That is what I've been trying to get across. Like I said ages ago .... honey works better than vinegar. Still, it's your board. Good luck with it.

[firsttimebuyer]

my apologies Saracen

I just wanted to make you aware, in your bid to try and inform others you were, even though it wasnt intended, making me feel worse and to just be aware of it.

My first paragraph may have came across a little strong but it was just to get across exactly how i felt when i read what you were saying. One minute SCAN just needed a second opinion but now its being said that they dont normally deal with similar RMA's like this, they can show goodwill, just that they have decided to show none to me.

I do appreciate some of the insight you have brought to this thread, its atleast made it clear where someone like me would stand legally, my apologies again but i understand if you dont want anything more to do with me or this thread.

[Clanger]

But after 6 months, that reversal of the burden of proof disappears and it's going to be down to you to prove what caused the damage, and that, effectively, it was a faulty or substandard component. And, if you can't prove it, then I'm afraid you have no right to insist on replacement. If you KNOW that you didn't do anything to cause the problem that can be highly infuriating, but it's not Scan's fault - it's the law of the land.

Are you saying that proof in your example requires identify components that failed?

The way I interpreted this legislation, proof of an inherent fault might simply be persuading a judge that a reasonable person would expect this item to last longer e.g. "This MacBook Pro cost me £2,000 and it's the most expensive object of this specification in the known universe, and should bloody well be expected to last more than 6 months" (or in the case of a 1 year warranty) "1 year and 1 day!" And that the judge could agree that is adequate evidence of a failure of durability (satisfactory quality) and an inherent fault without you having to identify the precise region of a failed PN junction on an transister on the main board that did it.

And of course, in this case, the seller's warranty effectively extends this 6 months (notwithstanding it's conditions which I haven't read) does it not?

The consumer media are telling us that shops are relying on most people thinking they have no rights after shops' 1 year warranties expire so as to sell us expensive and often unnecessary extended warranties for the class of product. Expensive, because other means of insurance would be cheaper, and unnecessary because it's reasonable to expect them to last that long under the Sale of Goods Act. So the question is: in general, does proving the inherent fault of lack of durability after 6 months necessarily entail identifying the precise mechanism of failure?

Although, I agree that in this case, if Scan were to counter by saying this failure couldn't be something the board did to itself, the complainant would have to provide expert evidence that it could and did. Purely hypothetically of course. But it's worth trying to understand these things.

[tomgibbes]

I have had great experience. I RMAed a PSU, got replacement, RMAed replacement and got a refund. No bollocking about or annoying questions from scan.

[Saracen]

....

I do appreciate some of the insight you have brought to this thread, its atleast made it clear where someone like me would stand legally, my apologies again but i understand if you dont want anything more to do with me or this thread.

If you want my comment, I'll gladly make it.

I think your mistake is that you're seeing this as either/or. Either they believe me and replace the product, or they don't replace the product which means they think I'm lying.

I don't think it's either /or. There's a spread of possibilities.

At one end is a clearly faulty product. And the other end is something clearly user-damaged. Remember that tale I related about the bloke that had fitted a CPU 90 degree off the correct alignment, and had several bent pins as a result of shoving pins down where there were no holes in the socket? That's clearly faulty installation.

In-between, there's a wide spectrum.

If you'd clearly been in that bent pin category where Scan felt sure you'd damaged it, I rather suspect they'd just have sent it back to you, because if they'd sent it to Asus, Asus would have immediately rejected it. If they felt that it was your fault or that you were lying or trying it on, I think they'd have just rejected it. I would if I were in their shoes.

The problem is that there's a variety of causes that are neither your fault nor the result of a faulty board.

Unfortunately, many of those causes, though not your fault, don't give you a right to a replacement, and the mains spike and that pesky moth are among them. If something of that type is the cause, it's not your fault, it's not Scan's fault and it's not Asus' fault as the board itself wasn't faulty. And when it's nobody's fault, I'm afraid the bill rests with the consumer. You might have a claim on household insurance, or of course, there are extended warranties on some equipment, though they amount to little more than a specialised form of insurance.

But if it isn't a faulty product, you can't really expect Scan or Asus to pick up the bill.

I think you're taking it as a personal slur, an accusation, almost. And what I've been trying to explain is that it isn't.

In fact, the mere fact that Scan didn't just reject it and send it back to you suggests to me precisely that they don't think you did it. If they did, they wouldn't be trying to help. It's more, in my opinion, a case of them saying it looks like it's one of those unknown things that just happens, but it might be a faulty board, and if it is, Asus are the best ones to detect that. Hence, them suggesting sending it back to Asus.

But if Asus say it isn't a faulty board, then we're back to one of those "act of God" (or moth) scenarios. Nobody's fault, but no replaced board.

I don't think it's a slur, or any form of imputation that you've done anything wrong. But if you take it personally, and react antagonistically at Scan, you might lose any willingness for them to put themselves out. Honey and vinegar, remember. Use what works, and don't make things worse for yourself.

And you never know ..... Asus might take one look, find a blown voltage regulator or something, and authorise an immediate replacement. Just because it looks like it isn't an inherently faulty product doesn't mean it actually isn't. Hence, the second and more expert opinion. They're trying to help, not stitch you up. If they felt you were at fault, they'd just reject it and that'd be that, unless you decided to try to court route..

[firsttimebuyer]

fair enough

I have checked that nothing i could have done unintentionally could have caused it, checking the area around where that chip sits, i cant see anything that could have possibly interfered with the chip. It was and had been working fine for months up until that point. That said i cant be 100% sure about the power surge, i have no idea, nothing else went off in the room but that doesnt mean anything. Only that 1 chip seems affected, unless SCAN found any others i dont know. The power supply still seems to be working fine, as far as i am aware something on the motherboard blew and thats all but true i have no real idea why.

thanks for your continued input Saracen.

I guess thats all i wanted really, a kind word and a explanation why this was necessary, it has been claimed that was done, you can read yourself the 1 email i was sent, with information i had to request (apart from the one with the form i needed to sign), so you can judge for yourself if that happened. They have since answered a few other concerns i had so we shall just leave it down to ASUS now (still nothing solid about why they have to send it to ASUS, not in an email anyway, but from what some have said in this forums from both SCAN workers and those just giving their opinion i can see why it can be necessary but it was never really the main issue anyway, just that it would have been the courteous thing to do).

thanks to others who have posted their input (good or bad) and i am glad to see atleast some of you are getting satisfaction with your own RMA's.

[atmadden]

The interesting point, to my mind, is that they clearly don't reject every RMA of this type.

They have the evidence they "need" if there isn't clear evidence that the fault is something inherent at the time of supply. That, whether we like it or not, is the legal position.

But the fact that they don't use that for virtually every RMA that's more than 6 months old speaks volumes. They could reject any RMA over 6 months unless it can be proven to be an inherent fault. But if they did, we'd see a LOT of threads about it. And we don't.

You're right, it's often very hard indeed to tell quite what failed, and even harder to tell why. But after 6 months, if it can't be proven to be an inherent fault, they don't have to replace it or refund. Yet, by and large, they do.

bibio put it well - there's a fine line between legal obligations and customer service. By and large, most of the time, Scan seem to err well on the side of customer service. But there is a line and obviously they felt that the damage on the board on this occasion was too close to, or over, that line. That doesn't mean they're right in that assessment, but technically, it'd be for the buyer to prove they're wrong. However, they say they'll send the board to Asus for an expert assessment. Short of just giving in to every claim they receive, they have to draw the line somewhere. firsttimebuyer is just unlucky that they've drawn it here.

I hear and understand what you are saying. So how on earth can you prove its an inherent fault? Unless you are an electronics expert or have bottomless pockets to take them to court you have had it in this situation. Scan are going to see physical damage and reject an rma after 6 months the way I see it because as you have said you won't be able to prove it and scan know that. Every component failure with physical damage will be rejected as far as I can see it if they use the same criteria unless it has been reported there is a known problem.

As an example if my 11 months old graphics card fails and there is physical damage to the board. I have just used it in normal use and know it is due to component failure. Scan will surely reject this!

I also believe you will see more of these threads coming up as I believe scan have hardened their stance in the current climate. Not all scan customers use these forums and not all bother to rma.

Warranties imho are not a lot of use.

[Saracen]

I hear and understand what you are saying. So how on earth can you prove its an inherent fault? Unless you are an electronics expert or have bottomless pockets to take them to court you have had it in this situation. Scan are going to see physical damage and reject an rma after 6 months the way I see it because as you have said you won't be able to prove it and scan know that. Every component failure with physical damage will be rejected as far as I can see it if they use the same criteria unless it has been reported there is a known problem.

....

From what I've seen, they don't just reject everything they could, though. That's one of the differences between a company that aims at good customer service and one that doesn't, and to me anyway, a good reason for using one that does give good service, even if they're not the cheapest. It's one of the reasons why the cheapest deal might not be the best value.

As for how you prove whether it's an inherent fault, well it obviously varies according to the nature of the product. If it's a piece of furniture, it might be obvious. But with computer technology, and many other products, an engineer's report is what it might take. It shouldn't cost the earth to use the courts, though. For most of this type of claim, unless there's unusual circumstances or unless it's a big claim (over £5000, IIRC) , it'll almost certainly end up in the small claims track. There, the court fees are kept pretty low, and you don't have to haver professional representation. The costs, therefore, should be modest. As for the engineer's report, the court gives some protection there. too. IIRC, you need to put proposals for independent examinations before the court and use their procedure, which usually means getting an agreement between both sides as to who does the report. If you win, it's likely that the other side will get at least part of the costs of that report, too.

But, of course, if you use the courts and lose, it'll cost you some money. Contrariwise, if you use the courts and win, it'll cost the company you sued more than it would have to just settle in the first place. It's not a risk-free option, but realistically, nor should it be. If you're so convinced you're in the right, then you shouldn't mind that risk because you'll get most or all of the costs back (providing you comply with court rules on use of representation experts, etc). And, of course, if you don't win, then perhaps it should cost you because the inference is you were wrong to start with, and you brought the court action.

The small claims track is there precisely for this kind of situation - where the amount involved is fairly small, the issues (and particularly the legalities) pretty simply, so you have a "court" that's pretty informal and cheap. No robes and wigs, no full court pomp - just you, the other side, the judge and a member of court staff or two sitting round a table. It's supposed to be quick, easy and relatively cheap, because for simply disputes, it'd never get used if it wasn't.

But one thing typically pervades such courts. They really expect both parties to have acted reasonably, and done everything reasonable to avoid going to court in the first place. If, for example, this particular case ended up before a court, they'd expect to see both sides doing what they can to avoid court. One of the things that Scan do can, and that would help towards them being reasonable, is to do exactly what they are doing, and organise Asus checking out the board.

Conversely, if Asus subsequently determined that the board was inherently faulty, then ftb's claim is primarily against Scan. He might also have one against Asus (depending on what their warranty says), but he certainly has one against Scan. And if, having got an opinion from Asus that the board just failed due to an inherent fault, if they then refused to deal with the claim, that would count against them in a court in the reasonableness stakes.

It's all getting highly hypothetical, but at least in terms of legal rights, ftb, you still wouldn't necessarily get a direct replacement, and legally, almost certainly wouldn't be entitled to a full refund. You might be offered a similar product as a replacement, but with the speed computer hardware moves on, the exact model might no longer be available. Generally, you'll be entitled to either a repair (usually not practical with computer hardware), replacement (which may see a similar and perhaps even upgraded product on offer, but if you bought your particular board for a specific feature it might not have that feature), or a refund that might take account of the use you've had from the product before it failed. Suppose, for example, that the normal life expectancy of a motherboard was four years (48 months). If you've had 11 months use, you might be offered 37/48ths of your money back. It is legitimate for a deduction to be made over the benefit you gained before it failed.

So, if it was a £100 board, you might be offered £77 refund for the board. But then, if you incurred £15 postage/courier charges to send it back, you'd be able to claim that too. And if it goes to court, you might be able to claim some other costs, like travel costs to court. But, anything you claim is supposed to be compensation for loss. It won't be punitive, and it does have limits.

One of the ways that judges punish an unreasonable party is either in how generous, or how strict, they are in awarding these costs.

atmadden, you say warranties aren't a lot of use. To a point, I agree with you,. They certainly aren't a total panacea for consumer problems. But, any warranty NEVER reduces your consumer rights, and might well significantly add to them. The thing to remember is that neither shop nor manufacturer has to offer a warranty, but for about the last 5 years, if they do offer one and if you knew of it, you can use the courts to enforce it.

I come back to the example I gave earlier of my tailor. They offer an extraordinary guarantee, and it's one of the reasons I'm prepared to buy clothes from then, sight unseen. And, having offered that warranty, I can enforce it thorough the courts if need-be.

But what warranties don't do is give consumers the rights they often think they have, or ought to have, but don't. So, like your legal rights, warranties do give you a benefit, but how much of a benefit depends on what the warranty/guarantee says. And, like your legal rights, you might have to use the courts to enforce them.

Most of the time, retailers will comply with warranties and legal rights at least in part because they know you can enforce them. But sometimes, they'll be a genuine dispute where the retailer doesn't believe it's in the wrong, and won't back down. If that happens, then the consumer might have to be prepared to use the court to get want they want, and clearly, they're only likely to succeed in that if they are in the right.


One more thing. A tiny percentage of the time when someone threatens a retailer with the Sale of Goods Act (etc) is it ever going to get to court. Partly, that's because consumers often think they're entitled to things they're not entitled to, and retailers often (though by no means always) know the law better than consumers. Some retailers, though, just think they do. A barrister friend of mine gave her dry-cleaner an object lesson in that principle once.

But, whilst a vast proportion of the time when a consumer says "I'll see you in court" nothing will come of it, sometimes the consumer really means it. And, a good percentage of the time, if the retailer concludes that you really do mean it, they won't let it get that far so a credible threat can work wonders. The most credible threat is to offer to supply a copy of the completed court claim and give an offer for the other party to settle within x days, or you'll file the claim with the court. And if they still don't settle, then send the claim (and cheque) into the court and proceed with the claim. A good percentage of the time, the other party will either settle before the hearing or just nor show up. It's often not worth their while, because win or lose, the hassle and aggravation, and time, is worth more than just settling it.

But sometimes, just as a buyer will be persistent and determined enough to go to court on principle rather than over the money, so sometimes will a retailer be prepared to do it over principle, whether it's financially worthwhile or not. A credible threat of court will often work when hot air and rants don't. And, of course, if you've been polite, reasonable and rational throughout, it helps tremendously if it does to to a hearing.

So are warranties useful? Yes, but only to a point. They're not a magic bullet for consumers to get their way, but they are useful tools and can add to the protection you get .... but you may have to fight to enforce them.

[Saracen]

.....

I guess thats all i wanted really, a kind word and a explanation why this was necessary,.....

Yeah, it may not have been handled as well as, in an ideal world, it could have been. But at least some of what you got was standard form mails.

I don't know how many RMAs Scan deal with, but I'd guess that with the volume of product they sell, there's a fair few RMA claims. And, of course, every RMA claim represents something that's quite likely important to the person making the claim, but it's one item in a never-ending daily regime of them to the person dealing with it. They use form mails because everyone, including you I'm sure and certainly including me, expects their case to be dealt with as promptly as possible. If every claim was handled by carefully worded personal responses every time, they'd be snowed under in no time, would have to take on more staff just to handle the paperwork, and costs would go up. And if costs go up, so do prices. And in a competitive market, if you put costs up too much, people start buying from your competitors because they're a bit cheaper.

There's a balance to strike, between offering the customer service the customer wants, and the customer service he's prepared to pay for. Every company offering product to a retail market faces that dichotomy. In my experience, as an example, you get a far better service level in Waitrose than Tesco. But then, you pay for it. Some products are as cheap, but some aren't, and it's not just because product quality is different.

Why do people use mail-order sellers rather than their local high-street computer shop? Several reasons, but a major one is generally price. Another, for the record, will be product range.

Anyway, I know what you're saying and agree - it wasn't handled perhaps as well as an ideal world would suggest. But in the real world, things aren't like that. If you really want high-end service, buy your groceries from Harrods or Fortnum and Mason, not ASDA or Tesco. Buy your watch from Rolex or Patek Philippe, not ..... well, take your pick. Buy your cars from Rolls Royce or Aston Martin, or even BMW or Mercedes (though I could relate a horror story about customer service there, too), not Wartburg. And buy your shirts from my tailor, not the local market.

If you want to buy computer parts mail-order, I genuinely think Scan are one of the better companies, and often, by quite a long way.I certainly would buy from them, and there's quite a few I wouldn't buy from ..... and some I wouldn't buy from again.

[firsttimebuyer]

yeah i know what you mean

I am now taking warranty and service into consideration more when i purchase something.

For example i will be purchasing a 24 inch monitor 2 graphics cards, 2x 4870 X2's, i have heard that ATI may have a new card in January but i am not sure i can wait that long, if you always wait for the latest and best you will never buy anything these days.

Back to my point, i have decided to get the Acer G24 (dont like the color that much, although i dont hate it but its got impressive specs at a not too high price). Looking about a company called 4AllClients has it for £276 inc tax, which is dirt cheap compared to the others but it only has a 2 year limited warranty and i have never used or heard of this company before (although some of my risks have paid of and i now shop at these places regularly). After looking about though i am going with Overclockers.co.uk, its alot more expensive £375.99 inc tax but its got a 3 year Collect & Return Warranty by the manufacturer (with something that big and heavy that could be a great benefit). I will make sure with OCuK this is as good as it sounds and also that it does actually include this warranty. All i can find with others is a 2 year limited but right enough these companies are cheaper. I have dealt with OCuK many times and they have always been great so thats reassuring with the amount of money i will be spending. I could be being a fool though paying that much extra for a collect&return warranty but since normal warranties dont seem to be worth the paper their printed on i will give paying a bit extra specifically for the warranty a try and see how that goes. I will have to wait and see if i will have to fork out for a new mobo on top of that but i guess i could live with a broken fan header if i really had to, aslong as thats all it was, maybe thats just a symptom of a more serious problem.

So you are right i guess, you get what you pay for but agreed there are worse companies than SCAN about at that price range (where i frequently have to shop, i dont always have the luxury of spending large sums of money or being able to make a choice thats not governed as much by the overall price).

[LORD DAVROS]

Well I have been sat here reading this for over an hour this morning and from an out side point of view I have bought all my pc components from scan for the last 5 years or more right from having my first pc built.
This year I have now started to build my own pc's and some for friends too . Having now built 5 pc's my self buying all components from scan accept the ram as they dont sell OCZ ram I have now had to RMA 1 motherboard due to it not running ram at 1066 Mhz even though the ram was 1066 rated (swapped out in less than a week.
Another asus motherboard due to same problem (scan alowed me to swap it out for an x38 gamers version as none in stock although the swaped out one cost stightly less than my origional one.. this was swapped out in 10 days).
One 4870x2 which I had already previously swapped a 4870 single gpu as it ended up not having the refrence cooler on it and raised case temps I PAYED THE POSTAGE AND EXTRA COST ON THAT ONE by the way . And the faulty 4870x2 was sent and tested and returned to me in a total of 3 days.
I have also had to return 1 or 2 other items in the past and although sometimes the fact that all items have to be returned and tested before they will send out a replacement might mean that I have been with out my pc for a time and I might not like that, they have always been excelent in their treatment of me...

I have to say that if I have an RMA i never email them of that fact but phone them and speak to one of 2 members of staff that I have got to know quite well. Then just reply to their email If it requires it send the item back by post if not too valuable or big or alternativly pay the 15 quid they charge to get city-link to collect it.
This meathod of RMA has not failed me yet.

I also think that possibly from what I see posted in this thread scan might have not kept you informed properly but we only have your word for that and probably you have not helped things by the way you have gone about it all.

WHY on earth you didnt just phone them in the first place and speak to them I just dont know.

ALL IN ALL MY EXPERIENCES WITH SCAN HAVE MEANT THAT I DONT GO ANY WHERE ELSE UNLESS THEY CANT GET WHAT I WANT.

[TAKTAK]

yeah i know what you mean

I am now taking warranty and service into consideration more when i purchase something.

For example i will be purchasing a 24 inch monitor 2 graphics cards, 2x 4870 X2's, i have heard that ATI may have a new card in January but i am not sure i can wait that long, if you always wait for the latest and best you will never buy anything these days.

Back to my point, i have decided to get the Acer G24 (dont like the color that much, although i dont hate it but its got impressive specs at a not too high price). Looking about a company called 4AllClients has it for £276 inc tax, which is dirt cheap compared to the others but it only has a 2 year limited warranty and i have never used or heard of this company before (although some of my risks have paid of and i now shop at these places regularly). After looking about though i am going with Overclockers.co.uk, its alot more expensive £375.99 inc tax but its got a 3 year Collect & Return Warranty by the manufacturer (with something that big and heavy that could be a great benefit). I will make sure with OCuK this is as good as it sounds and also that it does actually include this warranty. All i can find with others is a 2 year limited but right enough these companies are cheaper. I have dealt with OCuK many times and they have always been great so thats reassuring with the amount of money i will be spending. I could be being a fool though paying that much extra for a collect&return warranty but since normal warranties dont seem to be worth the paper their printed on i will give paying a bit extra specifically for the warranty a try and see how that goes. I will have to wait and see if i will have to fork out for a new mobo on top of that but i guess i could live with a broken fan header if i really had to, aslong as thats all it was, maybe thats just a symptom of a more serious problem.

So you are right i guess, you get what you pay for but agreed there are worse companies than SCAN about at that price range (where i frequently have to shop, i dont always have the luxury of spending large sums of money or being able to make a choice thats not governed as much by the overall price).

the Acer G24 is not great, it is overpriced tosh, the only thing it has in it's favour is it's appearance (and that is personal preference), it is only a TN panel.... you can get much better monitors for the same price point...

1 4870x2 is massive overkill for 1920x1200, never mind 2!

there are also alot of people that would avoid OCuk for warranties and would only use them for items with decent manufacturer warranties...

is it a coi-inky-dink that you'd get banned on their forum by saying 'OCuk bad for RMA's?' ?
i think not... it shows there attitude towards their customers... 'complain, and thats it, your on your own'... (if you don't believe me, have a search of any tech forum (not OCuk's obv ) or just google it...)

at least SCAN don't try and hide their dealings with customers... yes, sometimes things don't go the way the customer always wants, but the customer is NEVER right (unless your a special customer, /me guesses that Saracen is always right )...

SCAN are a business.. they have to protect themselves from a world full of lie-ing twits, and unfortunately this means that when someone (such as yourself) has a genuine reason for seeking a repair/replacement that they have to be careful, as they have to filter out the twits from the goodies, and it just so happens in your case, (as has been mentioned numerous time) that the most common way for a component to become scorched is user error (obv it happening due to a fault can also happen but it is less likely) hence why SCAN have to try and weed out who is telling the truth, yes, sometimes they will get things wrong, or they may not be certain and may refer it to the manufacturer for them to diagnose.

Yes it sucks... but its the world we live in... if there weren't so many conniving twits in this world then things would be easier and faster for those with genuine reason for complaint... but that is not the case now is it?


and to answer a question from earlier as to why alot of us use SCAN, 'tis because we have seen things go wrong, and how SCAN deal with them... plus their prices are good too

*substitute twit for whatever insulting word you want

[firsttimebuyer]

well its good to see that SCAN dont deal with all RMA's the same way.

I have no idea what can or cant cause i chip to blow, i guess i can grasp the concept that sticking something metal/conductive on the board could cause some damage or a power surge, exactly how that damage would manifest itself i have no idea.

I guess i just got over excited when i got the "Replacement / Credit" email and then i checked the online tracker and it had Replacement / Credit and then just below it it said "completed". I thought that the matter had been resolved, which was great news after the CPU fiasco (SCAN probably again think they did nothing wrong and i am sure the guy i spoke to on the phone either would not admit he said those things or try to spin it to make it look like lied or misinterpreted what he said). I did not get the rejected email for another 3 hours, with no real explanation of what was going on. I had to request some info, some they answered, some they did not and still have not. I was expecting them to just apologise in this thread for the mix-up and then send me emails getting me up to speed, instead i was met with what i felt was hostility and excuses. They were more interested in proving me wrong than dealing with the issue. I guess i could have just been a bit touchy after what happened last time.

As for Overclockers, i dont really know if they try and hide things on their forum, i have never had to use it. I have had 2 RMA dealings with OCuK, one for a motherboard and the other memory, both were dealt with quickly and their system, even though probably automated also, kept me informed accurately about what was going on. They also replied to webnotes promptly. I know that there could be people who have had bad experiences with OCuK, i would be interested in hearing about them, i am not here trying to promote OCuK, it just so happens they have not done anything yet to lose my business. I also use 3 other online retailers, the best of which is actually a small company called KustomPC.co.uk but they dont always have what i need but then again they ask in their forums what their customers want and then try their best to get it, i have gotten many things from them that i could not source anywhere else or they were the only one that had it in stock.

I guess i should just put this dealing down to bad luck, the CPU incident i dont know what to make of, i am not sure where SCAN were coming from on that one, lets just call that an anomaly, everyone can have their bad days.

As for the Acer 24inch, i am open to ideas, i just had read good reviews that although it was a bit more expensive it was a really good monitor, especially for its type.

As for the 2 4870 X2s being overkill, i agree, but i dont always have extra money coming in that i had not planned for and this is pretty much my hobby.

I agree i could maybe have dealt with things a little better myself but this seems to be where SCAN and i differ. I am willing to say i possibly had been a little hasty and a bit short tempered. I could have been a bit more patient with SCAN but after the CPU incident i had pretty much lost all my patients and respect for them. Maybe subconsciously i still harboured (British spelling ) a grudge and it boiled to the surface during this incident, clouding my judgement (its not like i thought about this every day since, when looking to buy items online i always remembered i did not buy from SCAN anymore, although i had been tempted a few times, but its not like i thought each time "i dont buy from SCAN because of the CPU...". When it came to writing the original post i struggled in the beginning to remember all the detials of the CPU incident, i remember they rejected it and sent it back covered in goop but i could not remember the thing that finally made me decide never to use SCAN again, as i had basically just moved on, but it eventually came back to me, the guy i spoke to on the phone, he did not come across very professional/nice and seemed to go out his way to try to goad me), i think thats why i also posted about the CPU incident in the original post, so people could see where i was coming from, i was not just trying to cause extra grief for SCAN or using it to get people on my side. I really dont see why i should have to phone in this day and age, emails should be a reliable enough service for people to use to keep in touch but i guess phoning does mean that they cant put me to one side until they are ready to deal with it.

Well like i said before i am glad some are getting satisfaction with their RMA's and i hope those in the future good luck with theirs if they are unfortunate enough to have to find themselves having to RMA something.

EDIT remember if anyone has a suggestion for 24 inch monitor, i am willing to spend around £300-£400, a manufacturers collect&return warranty be nice also but aslong as the monitor itself is worth the asking price or atleast one of the best 24 inchers out there even if its not the most expensive, PM me.

[LORD DAVROS]

Well to help you out a little here .. If i was you I would not bother getting the 4870x2 x2 at this time unless all you want them for is to get the highest 3dmarks 06 score you can as I have one here and am so fed up of trying to sort out the cooling problems with the fan sppeds I am just about ready to ship it back to scan and ask if i can swap it out for a 280 nvid then buy another one later on when i got some more cash to hand .

Breifly what the problem is ""and i have spent days digging around to sort this out"" that ATi have programed the bios on these cards to that the fan sits at 27% untill the gpu,s reach 70 c. themn they dont hit 100% untill 114 c. and to top that all off they give the fan controler a 95 Deg c. target temp.
This in its self causes temperature rises of at least 10 c. in your case and probably more on smaler cases but I am using a silverstone case which is MASIVE and has a cooling fan drawing in air and passing it directly over the gpu card. Also I have another issue which i dont have with my 9800 gpu and that is all the numbers in hammer ( a tool for making and editing maps for half-life) are so distorted that they are unreadable.

ANY WAY SOS IM GETTING OFF TOPIC HERE .. I have sent ati a very long letter after not getting very far with suport so far and will post that up when i get a reply ...