Vista and Windows 7 - reactions

[dangel]

ok I've used 7 a bit more, and I can't help but feel really disappointed.

The first issue is I've noticed is no difference in performance, I'm not sure if it's people comparing a seasoned vista/xp install to a fresh 7 one, but personally I've found it to be exactly the same as Vista.

Not really - it's night and day for me really - Vista kills my old lappy (see sig) but W7 runs like a dream. Obviously the increase is better seen on older hardware - which makes sense if you think about it..

I have to say, W7 (esp recent builds) is really looking like a great OS all in all. Very happy with it.

[chrislmc]

Vista as an OS is great. Vista as an iteration of Windows is not so great. For me, with a medium knowledge of XP, Vista fell down because the drivers didnt work right, and the dammed UAC. I have to say that my hate of vista is down to a very few things:

1. The day that an operating system tells me that I dont have rights to delete my own files is not one that will leave a good impression in my mind. This happened to me. I was unable to delete a bunch of files from an old installations user folder, I had to do research on UAC and fiddle and reboot to actually delete something off of my hard-drive.

2. Vista boot manager is invasive. It will infect other windows installations and make itself the main OS no matter what you do. This is probably down to me not being an expert in boot management, but still it really annoyed me. If I knew how to purge it from the MBR of my other drive I would probably forgiven this, but I didnt.

3. THERE IS NO REPAIR INSTALLATION ON MY OEM CD! I have tinkered quite a lot on my machine, and one hardware change decided to lock me out of Vista. I impatiently cancelled the scan-disk and put my machine back the way it was and tried to boot... No joy. Needed to re-install over the old copy of vista, and then call up to activate as it didnt want me to validate online as I had already used the key on the broken install. Oh and I permanantly have the choice to boot to the non-existent old broken copy that I have deleted.

So Far Windows 7 has not messed me around, so I guess I see it for what Vista probably is... A good operating system. I just hate Vista

[Singh400]

Vista as an OS is great. Vista as an iteration of Windows is not so great. For me, with a medium knowledge of XP, Vista fell down because the drivers didnt work right, and the dammed UAC. I have to say that my hate of vista is down to a very few things:

1. The day that an operating system tells me that I dont have rights to delete my own files is not one that will leave a good impression in my mind. This happened to me. I was unable to delete a bunch of files from an old installations user folder, I had to do research on UAC and fiddle and reboot to actually delete something off of my hard-drive.

Vista only does this if the location is protected and secure one.

2. Vista boot manager is invasive. It will infect other windows installations and make itself the main OS no matter what you do. This is probably down to me not being an expert in boot management, but still it really annoyed me. If I knew how to purge it from the MBR of my other drive I would probably forgiven this, but I didnt.

Use EasyBCD to manage all aspects of Vista Boot Manager.

3. THERE IS NO REPAIR INSTALLATION ON MY OEM CD! I have tinkered quite a lot on my machine, and one hardware change decided to lock me out of Vista. I impatiently cancelled the scan-disk and put my machine back the way it was and tried to boot... No joy. Needed to re-install over the old copy of vista, and then call up to activate as it didnt want me to validate online as I had already used the key on the broken install. Oh and I permanantly have the choice to boot to the non-existent old broken copy that I have deleted.

Yes there is. But you OEM probably customized it's DVD to remove the repair option (god knows why). Take a look at any *.cfg files in the \SOURCES folder on your DVD.

[shaithis]

Not really - it's night and day for me really - Vista kills my old lappy (see sig) but W7 runs like a dream. Obviously the increase is better seen on older hardware - which makes sense if you think about it..

The question is...... Could you tweak Vista to the same footprint?

Personally, I think you probably could....ofc you shouldn't need to but the choice to turn a number of services off is available.

I like W7 but still stand by my statement it should have been a service pack, Microsoft are really taking an Apple-like stance over releasing it as it's own product.....and in the current economic climate they could have done themselves a lot of favours by not being this greedy.

[this_is_gav]

But most people will only buy it if they see it as beneficial. As the core is so similar to Vista, then us enthusiasts will only upgrade if we feel it will bring us something. Joe Public won't buy it - they never do unless it comes with a new PC. I don't actually know any non-enthusiast who's bought a newer OS separate to a machine since XP came out, and the only people I know who will upgrade to W7 will be those still on XP, not those on Vista.

The majority of sales to Mr. Public will be those buying new PCs, just as it always was.

[dangel]

The question is...... Could you tweak Vista to the same footprint?.

Nope, not really. The gains come from a lot of work on all aspects of the system - from boot time to memory footprint. There's a lot of info from the Windows team on what they've been up to and the impression you get is that a LOT of work went into 7. Of course, if it's not UI then people assume nothings changed - unless something drastic happens (like the performance increases) which are just as visible. You should check out their blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/ the detail they go into and the metric data they provide is very interesting.

If you think it should of been a service pack then that same could of been said about XP - after all, it's just a 'tweaked' Windows 2000, right?

[shaithis]

http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/

Which reads as: We added touch (something 99.99% of users will not use - at least in this iteration of the OS) and we tweaked a load of functionality that was already in vista (search, Aero, Explorer).

If you think it should of been a service pack then that same could of been said about XP - after all, it's just a 'tweaked' Windows 2000, right?

Driver rollback, hibernation, fast user switching, RDC and a new GUI....all pretty darn useful features that added a fair amount of functionality for a lot of people....not just tweaks to current functionality or features that very few will use.

[Zadock]

Yes there is. But you OEM probably customized it's DVD to remove the repair option (god knows why). Take a look at any *.cfg files in the \SOURCES folder on your DVD.

There is a repair option on my copy (OEM 32 bit home premium), I used it recently to repair the boot loader after I removed windows 7.

The UAC is fairly easy to sort out, I've not found it that invasive at all. I setup a main user account and an admin account, its very rare that I need to enter the admin account to sort anything out mind you.

As for vista making itself the default os thats easy enough to sort out you just do "run > msconfig". click on the boot.ini tab and change the order of operating systems.

I hated vista to begin with because I had driver issues and one or two stability ones, so I left it for a few months and then came back post SP1 and it runs like a dream now. Had hardly any problems and I have to say that applications crash far less than they ever did on XP.

[dangel]

Which reads as: We added touch (something 99.99% of users will not use - at least in this iteration of the OS) and we tweaked a load of functionality that was already in vista (search, Aero, Explorer).

Which reads as: I ignored everything else

Driver rollback, hibernation, fast user switching, RDC and a new GUI....all pretty darn useful features that added a fair amount of functionality for a lot of people....not just tweaks to current functionality or features that very few will use.

Usefulness was never under question, more the problem is there's lots of nice features in 7 that i'll (am) find just as useful as the ones you list there. Everything's derivative - that's the whole point of the genesis of a product so arguing features aren't useful because they're the n'th interation is pretty stupid. I've never used FUS - useless as a result? 7 has a RDC which supports multiple monitors - not useful? It has a new UI too - superbar and aero snap - but does XP's skinned Win2k UI outweigh that? But we digress - because the point is that as much (if not more) work has gone into 7 - partly because it's a far more complex product but also partly because MS desperately need a 'win' with this OS release. I'm using it week after week at work and i can't say I want to backpeddle to Vista - either from the POV of a developer plugging into some rather neat new APIs or as a use who just enjoys the new features, the better performance and some good attention to detail in resolving long standing annoyances in the UI. YMMV, but to say all of this could of simply been applied a patch to it's predecessor is to ignore the depth and breadth of the changes involved IMHO.

[goku127]

I've tried Vista a few times but somehow I prefer it to be less of a hassle if I stuck with XP. I'm considering building a new computer in the comming months so maybe when Windows 7 does get released I may jump straight onto it rather than installing Vista on it.

[MadduckUK]

I'm using it week after week at work

really? braver than me it has to be said - then again only got a gig in the current work comp so not an option just yet really.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

I've tried Vista a few times but somehow I prefer it to be less of a hassle if I stuck with XP. I'm considering building a new computer in the comming months so maybe when Windows 7 does get released I may jump straight onto it rather than installing Vista on it.

bad idea because most if not all OS at launch are full of bugs

[Singh400]

bad idea because most if not all OS at launch are full of bugs

Bad idea, because that WinXP thinking. If you've actually used Windows 7 you'll see it is major bug free.

The old "I'll wait for SP1" line of thinking is old and outdated and no longer applies to Windows 7.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Bad idea, because that WinXP thinking. If you've actually used Windows 7 you'll see it is major bug free.

The old "I'll wait for SP1" line of thinking is old and outdated and no longer applies to Windows 7.

we'll see. hope your right.miracles can happen

[MadduckUK]

give it a go josh, it hasn't tried to bite my balls off yet and the only time it widdled on the carpet was when i tried to upgrade from 7048 to 7057. you must have a spare drive /partition around you can wack it on and mess

[dangel]

really? braver than me it has to be said - then again only got a gig in the current work comp so not an option just yet really.

It's part of my job to test shiny new things anyway - and having put it on a spare partition for 'testing' it turned out to be so good i just stopped using Vista. Couple of issues to begin with but since then i've really not had a problem (other than nvidia drivers needing updating)