AMD - Piledriver chitchat

[kompukare]

No wonder Nvidia is boasting:

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/31...-talks-haswell

Wonder how the fanboys will handle that? Intel fans tend to be Nvidia fans as well (I think a lot of fanboyism is basically saying: 'look at me, I can afford the more expensive part therefore I am cleverer than you lot').

Iris looks technically impressive but so expensive it's like the top-end i7 mobile parts like the Core i7-3940XM (list price $1096). Not even top-of-the-rang business laptops ship with those so these parts only seem to serve a halo-product purpose. But if Iris uses that much power, there goes it's supposed technical advantage.

350mm² at 22nm is equivalent to 500mm²+ at 32nm, so maybe Intel should licence a decent GPU from someone

[watercooled]

Wonder how the fanboys will handle that? Intel fans tend to be Nvidia fans as well (I think a lot of fanboyism is basically saying: 'look at me, I can afford the more expensive part therefore I am cleverer than you lot').

That's what it generally boils down to, some sort of misplaced elitism because they bought something from a certain brand, often more expensive and poorer value for money. And yeah, I think a lot of them assume Intel and Nvidia are best of friends, but it couldn't be further from the truth - e.g. Intel have screwed over Nvidia plenty of times, pushing them out of certain markets/preventing them from entering competing ones etc. But then, a lot of these fanboys think the market wouldn't be affected by lack of competition...

Iris looks technically impressive but so expensive it's like the top-end i7 mobile parts like the Core i7-3940XM (list price $1096). Not even top-of-the-rang business laptops ship with those so these parts only seem to serve a halo-product purpose. But if Iris uses that much power, there goes it's supposed technical advantage.

350mm² at 22nm is equivalent to 500mm²+ at 32nm, so maybe Intel should licence a decent GPU from someone

Maybe they'll make it (GT3e) a necessity for a laptop to carry some marketing fluff brand like ultrabook, shinybook (you heard it here first ) or whatever they come up with next? So, a MFR could make a vastly superior laptop with Nvidia/AMD add-on graphics, but it's not allowed to use the shiny name so looks less attractive from a marketing standpoint? Intel would be more than happy to bully Nvidia like that.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Saw this on overclock.net:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1396488/s...#post_20108267

Gigabyte advertising support for 5GHZ AM3+ CPUs.

Wonder how the fanboys will handle that?

AMD and Nvidia are doomed!! When Intel launches 14NM,they will be the bestest!

Intel fanboism trumps Nvidia fanboism it seems. However,it does seem more prevalent on one or two US forums.

Edit!!

Possible AMD logo change:

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/30763/...go-/index.html

[inf64]

Hello guys, my forum account finally got approved .
Thanks for the links CAT-THE-FIFTH . I'm looking forward posting here!

A small present (from our friend Flanker at XS AMD subforum):
i.imgur.com/zc3jnQZ.png

I don't know the details of the cooling and he is under NDA so this is all when it comes to Richland leaks so far. Great clock nevertheless.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Hello guys, my forum account finally got approved .
Thanks for the links CAT-THE-FIFTH . I'm looking forward posting here!

A small present (from our friend Flanker at XS AMD subforum):
i.imgur.com/zc3jnQZ.png

I don't know the details of the cooling and he is under NDA so this is all when it comes to Richland leaks so far. Great clock nevertheless.

Wow! Thats a pretty good overclock for an A10!

[kompukare]

Maybe they'll make it (GT3e) a necessity for a laptop to carry some marketing fluff brand like ultrabook, shinybook (you heard it here first ) or whatever they come up with next? So, a MFR could make a vastly superior laptop with Nvidia/AMD add-on graphics, but it's not allowed to use the shiny name so looks less attractive from a marketing standpoint? Intel would be more than happy to bully Nvidia like that.

How about MyPreciousBook™ or TheOneBook™? Well, I guess Intel have a long history of bulling or market abuse (but note how clever they were to settle out of court with the EC: Microsoft did not and now get slapped with an automatic fine for breaching the settlement while for anything to happen to Intel the whole thing would have to start again from scratch). Thing is Nvidia are not much better - in fact I'd say for their size they're even worse.

Back to Cat's http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/31...-talks-haswell link: Amazing that Nvidia have such a huge mobile share only a few years after destroying so many laptops with their millions of defective parts. Even more amazing was how lightly the press handled that fiasco.

AMD and Nvidia are doomed!! When Intel launches 14NM,they will be the bestest!

For the die space devoted, the R&D budget spent, and considering Intel's process advantage, Iris and HD4600 are not that impressive. But their deep pockets and ability to be one node ahead of everyone else will most likely - like in the P4 vs AMD64 days - mean that Intel will continue to dominate. Throw in a few more monopolistic tendencies and their dominance is almost guaranteed.

A sad but realistic view, but that doesn't mean we have to herald Intel as our best friend.

@inf64

Good to see you here. The discussions are a bit more balanced here, so quite a different. For instance I don't think I ever saw anyone here arguing that if Intel had no competition at all, they'd be our even better friend

[DanceswithUnix]

Possible AMD logo change:

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/30763/...go-/index.html

You don't think their marketing bods just messed up the order with the stand makers then?

[DanceswithUnix]

For the die space devoted, the R&D budget spent, and considering Intel's process advantage, Iris and HD4600 are not that impressive. But their deep pockets and ability to be one node ahead of everyone else will most likely - like in the P4 vs AMD64 days - mean that Intel will continue to dominate. Throw in a few more monopolistic tendencies and their dominance is almost guaranteed.

A sad but realistic view, but that doesn't mean we have to herald Intel as our best friend.

Not sure it will help them in the long term though. New processes are now so expensive to implement that it is getting into the realms of you get twice as many chips from a wafer that costs twice as much to make, so no cost saving. Electrically there is no performance benefit, so clock speeds don't go up.

Are Intel back to their old tricks again atm? Been looking for a new AM3+ motherboard, and having real problems. There are a few of the loony priced overclocker specials around and lots of really cheap 760G chipset boards, but nothing much in the middle. Probably will end up with an Asus M5A97 Evo R2.0, and the only supplier I can find is Amazon. That's wrong.

I see Scan have the 6800k in for £120 now. 4.1GHz base 4.4 boost?

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd-a...4mhz-100w-reta

[HalloweenJack]

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Compo...roductId=55739


£111 at aria and heading south

I knew scan were gouging....

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

For the die space devoted, the R&D budget spent, and considering Intel's process advantage, Iris and HD4600 are not that impressive. But their deep pockets and ability to be one node ahead of everyone else will most likely - like in the P4 vs AMD64 days - mean that Intel will continue to dominate. Throw in a few more monopolistic tendencies and their dominance is almost guaranteed.

A sad but realistic view, but that doesn't mean we have to herald Intel as our best friend.

There are actually people who think Intel will end up selling desktop boxes with their highest end graphics,which will be affordable and destroy Nvidia and AMD. I am talking PC gaming boxes,etc running PC games.

The problem is Intel is not going to sell chips with their bestest IGPs for £100,they want to maintain margins and will add a premium anyway. Even if they made a mahoosive 200W desktop APU for gaming,they will hit the same issues as AMD and Nvidia.Intel is starting from such a low graphics level that their increases look impressive,but I think people have this view if they double a few bits here and there,it means linear performance increases. However,as AMD and Nvidia have shown,this is not the case. Look at the HD4600 against the HD5200?? With double the shaders,similar Turbo clockspeeds and significantly more memory bandwidth the HD5200 is not even twice as fast as the HD4600!

Even if Broadwell appears early next year and Intel finds another 50% improvement in GT3e,the chip is still likely to be big,as the smaller node is offset by their need to use more transistors,and it is still likely one of the AMD or Nvidia low end GPUs ends up being faster and cheaper to make.

This is also assuming the fact AMD or Nvidia don't have one of their large performance jumps too.

Then on top of this 64 bit ARM cores will start to appear,and the ARM licensees will start improving their IGPs too,and I suspect for desktop boxes they might start attacking from the low end,by relaxing some of their TDP requirements in the next few years.

The problem with this "Intel Box" to work,is that they would need to optimise software large scale,for it,ie, not one or two tech demoes.

The thing is that both MS and Sony have already invested in consoles which will last 5 to 10 years and Microsoft has $65 billiion+ in free cash,whereas Intel has most of their assets tied up in fabs,etc. Microsoft has already spent $1 billion on XBox One exclusives too.

If its a Steam Box then,its still fail. The Steam Box looks like it will run PC games,and be more of a minimum spec. So if anything the current Intel IGPs are not fast enough,and PC games require brute strength to run,which means the minimum specs will increase per year.

As much as GPU power is increasing,so will the demands of games,and with the new consoles coming out soon,the next bump in hardware specifications will happen.

So,basically the IGP would be replaced by a discrete card,unless those noises about Intel locking out such functionality are true,meaning every two to three years when there is a new node,you have to ditch out the whole innards of your box at great cost.

Ultimately,a console will still win out. A desktop card with greater TDP headroom will be faster,and probably cheaper to implement.

The thing is IGPs are interesting not for their power but for the fact that the implementations should be cheap and be good value when compared to a discrete card and separate CPU,ie,they should be an entry level hardware for gaming or for power savings in mobile. Once they start going beyond that,it is simply cheaper to probably get a laptop or desktop with a discrete card,which will be faster.

[HalloweenJack]

CAT

you have any idea the die size for iris pro? think I`ve read its actually really large

[kompukare]

CAT

you have any idea the die size for iris pro? think I`ve read its actually really large

Intel are not being forthcoming for a change; the 350mm² I quoted was a from Anand's article, bottom of this page:
http://anandtech.com/show/6993/intel...950hq-tested/4

Strictly speaking the eDRAM is on-package and not on-die (like Arrandale) but it's 22nm and Intel are charging their customary margins. About the only difference on-package makes that yields should be somewhat better.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The eDRAM is made using a special low power variant of the standard Intel 22NM process.

Edit!!

AMD actually spend money on a commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=MQcjEA3it90#!



http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/produc...nvincible.aspx

Second Edit!!

It looks like,the middle of June is when the FX9000 will be released:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-F...r-358123.shtml

[DanceswithUnix]

Anyone that thinks Intel are serious about graphics should take a long look at Larrabee that was supposed to ship in 2010

As for a Steam box, I got the impression Valve were leaning towards Linux for that and Intel have an astonishingly bad record with Linux drivers.

[HalloweenJack]

174mm2 - holy **** , that's bigger than a GT640 and a HD 7790!!


WOW - anand thinks that may even be under by quite a bit as well!

This is contrary to the ~33% in a quad-core Haswell GT2. I suspect a dual-core + GT3 design is at least half GPU

that's measured at 181mm2 , so the full monty maybe a whopping 362mm2 , which is bigger than a gtx 680 AND a 7970! (if im barking up the right tree ofc)

intel have ALOT to do - AMD could play the same game and literally bolt a 7870 on there and still have a smaller package!

[kompukare]

intel have ALOT to do - AMD could play the same game and literally bolt a 7870 on there and still have a smaller package!

There is that rumour of AMD using the PS4 design and selling a similar APU. Problem is GDDR5 is soldered only and would not work in DIMMs. The Intel on-package eDRAM solution doesn't have that problem. For ultrabooks soldered GDDR5 might be acceptable but GDDR5 is power hungrier than DDR3. I've measured a 7950 with the core at 1100Mhz pulling 35W less with RAM at 310MHz vs 1500MHz - so no idea what 8GB GDDR5 at even 1200MHz would pull. Might negate using an APU instead of a dGPU in the first place.

But then again with Intel charging $600 for a CPU with GT2e there are lots of possibilities.