AMD - Zen chitchat

[kompukare]

ASrock have announced another DeskMini, the DeskMini Max.
10 litres and can take a 20cm GPU.

https://www.computerbase.de/2021-06/...-grafikkarten/


Not totally new as the DAN case A4 is around that size and so is the Jonsbo T8 however, this has one advantage/disadvantage. Since it doesn't use a standard ITX motherboard it has four DIMM slots.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNs432VgxmQ

AMD Genoa is 128 cores.


https://adoredtv.com/amd-epyc-genoa-...nel-ddr5-5200/

So on 5NM each 8 core CCX is 69MM2. It also means Zen4 is 8 cores per CCX.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Gamersnexus tested the Ryzen 5 5600G:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KycNI1FxIPc



The IGP is around GT1030 GDDR5 level at lower settings,but falls behind when resolution is increased. The CPU is in-between a Ryzen 5 3600 and a Core i5 10600K,and seem a decent amount slower than a Ryzen 5 5600X.

[DanceswithUnix]

The IGP is around GT1030 GDDR5 level at lower settings,but falls behind when resolution is increased. The CPU is in-between a Ryzen 5 3600 and a Core i5 10600K,and seem a decent amount slower than a Ryzen 5 5600X.

The lower performance I can live with, if it drives the cost down towards 3600 pricing.

IGP performance isn't a shock given the usual igp ram bottleneck. Now there's a chip that could do with some of that 3D stacked cache...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The lower performance I can live with, if it drives the cost down towards 3600 pricing.

IGP performance isn't a shock given the usual igp ram bottleneck. Now there's a chip that could do with some of that 3D stacked cache...

They are also limited to PCI-E 3.0(24 lanes).

The RRP is around £220 if you add VAT and do the USD to GBP conversion,and the Ryzen 7 5700G is around £300. Having said that if the Ryzen 7 5700G was available for £300, when I got my Ryzen 7 3700X late last year, I might have considered it. Having an IGP is usesful IMHO.

[kompukare]

First DDR5 modules have been priced:
https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/dd...uldnt-buy-them
Deep pocket requires, as the TeamGroup 32GB DDR5-4800 kit (2x16GB) is around $400.
Will be a while before it is worth considering an APU with high clocked DDR5 for cheap(ish).

[DanceswithUnix]

They are also limited to PCI-E 3.0(24 lanes).

The RRP is around £220 if you add VAT and do the USD to GBP conversion,and the Ryzen 7 5700G is around £300. Having said that if the Ryzen 7 5700G was available for £300, when I got my Ryzen 7 3700X late last year, I might have considered it. Having an IGP is usesful IMHO.

Is that enough to drive all the motherboard slots (too busy to look it up)? I have a 2200G here where the PCIe3 is fine, but it misses some lanes so eg it can only drive a x8 GPU and often can't drive things like a second NVMe slot on a motherboard.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Is that enough to drive all the motherboard slots (too busy to look it up)? I have a 2200G here where the PCIe3 is fine, but it misses some lanes so eg it can only drive a x8 GPU and often can't drive things like a second NVMe slot on a motherboard.

I have a Ryzen 7 3700X in a B450 mini-ITX motherboard - so it should be OK IMHO. Zen+ APUs only had 16 lanes in total. The only real downside is if PCI-E 4.0 actually becomes useful,but as I have a B450 motherboard,my system is only limited to PCI-E 3.0 anyway!

First DDR5 modules have been priced:
https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/dd...uldnt-buy-them
Deep pocket requires, as the TeamGroup 32GB DDR5-4800 kit (2x16GB) is around $400.
Will be a while before it is worth considering an APU with high clocked DDR5 for cheap(ish).

My Adata 3600MHZ 32GB DDR4 kit cost £115! I wonder if the Zen3 SKUs with the extra L3 cache are meant to blunt any advantage ADL lake has with DDR5?? The internal bandwidth and latency of such a huge cache,should blunt the bandwidth increases offered by DDR5?

[kompukare]

My Adata 3600MHZ 32GB DDR4 kit cost £115! I wonder if the Zen3 SKUs with the extra L3 cache are meant to blunt any advantage ADL lake has with DDR5?? The internal bandwidth and latency of such a huge cache,should blunt the bandwidth increases offered by DDR5?

Yes, a very steep increase even for early adopters surcharge. If the prices stays very high, most ADL systems will be DDR4 anyhow.
3D stacked cache is something they've been working on for years and about the only thing which might be a response to ADL is that consumer parts get it first.

[DanceswithUnix]

The internal bandwidth and latency of such a huge cache,should blunt the bandwidth increases offered by DDR5?

It has one job... to hide memory performance

Bandwidth probably isn't helped, things like processing video data is always grabbing new data so what is in the cache doesn't help much and even 200MB of cache won't store many frames of uncompressed video. But compilers, databases, and even games should see some improvement from latency.

[Xlucine]

If 128MB of cache on a high end GPU can halve the GDDR bandwidth requirement, then 64MB on an APU will make it fly (even using DDR3)

[[GSV]Trig]

My server has a 3400g in it at the mo but I don't have space for a GPU so these are what I have been waiting for, the 5600G gives me more cores and is faster for being generations newer, the added APU just means I can also use the box for something else as and when I need too..

[Corky34]

So with the refresh of Zen 3 confirmed now what are peoples thoughts on the socket it's going to be using, i wouldn't have thought the 3DV Cache would necessitate a new socket but if it supports DDR5 then they'll probably change to a new socket while changing RAM slots, question is will DDR5 be (consumer) market ready in the next 5 months.

Would be nice to squeeze one more CPU into AM4, especially one with a claimed a 15% gaming performance uplift.

[kompukare]

I would imagine Zen3-3D will stay on AM4.

DDR5 is very risky. I think the DDR4 to DDR5 transition is unusual as consumer is leading; weren't all previous transitions driven by server and workstation? Intel are meant to be hedging their bets and AL has both DDR5 and DDR4 controllers.


Also, I know CAT likes to go on about Socket 754 and Socket 939 way back when, and part of that was the cost of single-channel vs dual-channel.

I would imagine most OEMs would not be happy if AM5 with DDR5 is forced on them too early while DDR5 prices are still high.

Still, with the IO die, AMD are in a unique position where they could be able to pair Zen4 with DDR4 and even Zen3 with DDR5 if they really wanted to.

[Terbinator]

As with all transitions the jump to a new DDR spec and associated costs is almost never worth it unless you need the extra bandwidth for specific scenarios (in which case, a HEDT/Server with more channels is probably cheaper and better).

From my own perspective, it'd be nice if Zen3+ is AM4 so I can pick up a 16 core (or more?) monster down the line and replace the 5800X I have for 'cheap'.

[DanceswithUnix]

My guess is AM4.

In the same way that the last of the construction core APUs were capable of both DDR3 and DDR4 use, it wouldn't surprise me if the refresh parts were capable of running on AM5. But, these refresh parts have more bits of silicon bolted on in complex ways so it would make sense if they were a new more expensive layer on top of the existing 5000 series, hopefully pushing 5000 series down in price.

Would it make sense to introduce AM5 with a new high end CPU for the expensive new platform with rare expensive ram? Maybe. Probably not if that then gets replaced really quickly with a better Zen 4. Makes more sense to allow the refresh to work as an AM4 upgrade option.