That seems like an awful lot for basic manual labour - I suspect that your cow-orkers are considered more highly skilled than the average factory worker.Originally Posted by Flibb
Another comparison for the postal workers is retail workers - the basic workers with no management responsibility earn a similar wage to Il Postino.
hugely disappointed at this thread was hoping it was about striking useless postmen with various items but it's not. would happily strike mine with a baseball bat if it was legal. We never lose the bills but so many of my sons birthday xmas cards have gone missing with money in
Perhaps it's just me. Watching billions of £ of taxpayers money pumped into propping up reckless and failed bankers and MPs accidentally claiming expenses for second homes from the same pot just seems a bit rich when the people who pay into that pot all their lives can't get a decent wage to live on.
Hah, real thieves don't have to strike, they just take what they want. You want to point a finger? Point it in the right direction.
Santa has a good and valid point.
To earn £16k to £20k when you're 18 isn't a bad thing at all... but to still be earning that when you're 40+ is less good and if you stick with them, and your salary doen't go up with experience and time, then it's a scandal.
No job is a as easy as it sounds from outside, and a postal worker, driving a postal van with all the responsibility that a company vehicle brings, and with literally everyone's important post in it... it's a responsible job, and they deserve more.
Particularly when the Royal Mail is now making proper profits across the board.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/ja...al-mail-profit
Get another job, you say though... get another job. Like one in Tesco on the tills? Or maybe in B&Q filling shelves? Or maybe in one of the last factories left in this country? Maybe gutting fish al day? Maybe painting fences for the council.
All of these are jobs with a certain skill required, be it the skill to stay focused when bored, or maybe the skills to paint acurately around 2 miles of council fences every few weeks as you do the school railings.
To earn enough to live is vital.
To live in London for example, is bleeding expensive. To survive with a family on £18k is hard enough in the sticks.
nichomach (13-07-2009),santa claus (11-07-2009)
Umm.. really? Having worked for RM for a year now, I can say that my average weekly pay is below your starting rate. As for striking, we haven't been balloted in our area, but as an ordinary worker it's crucial to support your union. How else are you going to ensure that you get a decent wage for a fair amount of work? Of course there are shirkers, thieves and people of all descriptions in the company, just as there are in the general population. However, the vast majority of us enjoy meeting the people we deliver to, to our utmost to give a good service, and don't steal birthday cards!
I'm amazed at people thinking it's acceptable to want to beat up their postman, or (as happens often) abuse them in the street or act as if we're some kind of uneducated, thieving scum. Get to know your postie (if they're left on the job long enough), you'll find most of them are ok. We may bring your bills, but it's fantastic when you deliver someone's b/day present, card or exam results and see their excitement. I love it
Probably (b) if you insist on a choice, not all of us are idiots thanks.
Wrong, the monopoly went years ago. These days RM is forced to "compete" with private mail companies (with even worse conditions than RM actually) who are able to cherry pick the best business and get us to deliver their mail for them at a knock-down price. Significantly, they are not bound by the universal service obligation - delivering to EVERY address in the UK for a fixed price, which is what really hammers RM. Criticise the strike by all means, but speak to someone who does the job to find out why.As royal mail is a specail kind of monopoly.
Sorry for the double post btw
Last edited by Ruggerbugger; 11-07-2009 at 08:55 PM.
A touching comment imho and a true reflection of the community service provided by (most of) our postie's. Y'know, these days gangs beat up ambulance teams, policemen, firemen you name it and these people are working for US on wages less than those earned by Steptoe & SonWe may bring your bills, but it's fantastic when you deliver someone's b/day present, card or exam results and see their excitement. I love it.
Our posties are generally first class.
You owe it to yourself to click here really.
santa claus (12-07-2009)
Peodophiles rape children, as such we shouldn't complain when someone rapes an adult, because there are worse people to point the finger at?
Thats a stupid excuse, they are always 'worse' comparative crimes, dosen't mean you still can't have a rant every now and again.
It is fricken London, they are a veritable myriad of jobs for many different skill types on offer here. I'm not talking about those somewhere stupid like cornwall where they just have no real alternative.
Now as for monopoly, look at how many depos they have, look at the distribution network they have, they where effectively given this as a private firm, they didn't pay a fair rate for it all. As such the fact that anyone like TNT can do better is a sign of the absolute gross incompetence of RMs inefficencies. But this is beside the point.
I'd of sooner been a teacher, from my experiences it was a lot less stressful, a lot less working hours, in 15 years I might do a PGCE and become one, the funny thing is i would never strike over pay, i'd be first in the picket lines for something like creationisim been brought into science, but i would never leverage off the kids i'm there to help, for my own personal gain.
The same way i would never blackmail my clients, whom lease a years license + service contract for my software, i know one place has invested a lot of money in building upon one of our platforms, it would be very wrong for us to say well the price has gone up 10 fold, just because they would have no alternative. Obviously they'd have to pay it one year, but get rid of us the next.
The same goes with the strikes, they should fire every single one of them, as quickly as they can replace them.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
I do apologise, 'stupid excuse' not intended. I was participating in the rant by developing the discussion. But please, any time you feel I am making stupid excuses do please tell me (but be careful the insult doesn't end up actually making you look stupid).
That's the beauty of a Union; you can't pick off the easy targets one by one. You do to all what you do to one. It encourages managers to honour contracts of employment and together, managers and staff work for their mutual benefit.
What you sow so shall you reap. It is an enshrined right. It's not stupid.
start your own thread and keep it on topicI do apologise, 'stupid excuse' not intended. I was participating in the rant by developing the discussion. But please, any time you feel I am making stupid excuses do please tell me (but be careful the insult doesn't end up actually making you look stupid).
Contracts are honoured by law, they are enforced by the legal system. The notion of them been enforced by blackmail, rather than due process frankly alarms me. The fact that a union works by threatening an employer means its not a fair negotiation.
I'm not a member of a unoin, last time an employer did something I felt was not right, I sought impartial legal advice, paid for by my legal insurance (which fyi costs £15 per year, how much do union dues cost?). My first job, I felt after 9 months I was been taken advantage off, been underpaid and expected to provide support from 6am to 11pm. Did i get together with my colleges and strike? No i approached my boss, he told me No, I left. At the time i could have easily blackmailed a lot of money simply by withholding my technical knowledge, it would have a short term effect which would have suspended certain types of flow trading for 3 global sites. I can't fathom the mindset that thinks they are entitled to force someone to give them what they want.
The interesting thing after I had quit, and another left, they upped the wages considerably, and provided proper support for the other offices, which reduced the hours.
I still can not begin to see why if the mail workers at the sorting office in london feel they are hard done by, they just don't get another job? Instead they inconvenience their customers, so much so I used citylink for the order i placed on friday! (and i've found their customer service lackluster at best).
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
Sigh, ok let's stick to your ranting thenstart your own thread and keep it on topic
A bit naive I'm afraid. The deal between workforce and employer is one of partnership for mutual benefit. There is redress if either party 'forgets' its commitment.
Gettaway, you're not a Union member? Well I never. Had you been in a Union you might have stayed and ensured 'what was not right' was not repeated for some other hapless soul. You say you "could have easily blackmailed a lot of money simply by withholding my technical knowledge"...you did, you left in a hissy fit, meh. You were also prepared for legal action - you like a bit of clout behind you when you meet with unfairness? Sort of like being in a Union.
"Keep interested in your own career, however humble, it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time" (Desiderata).
Unless of course your real employer is the Public, and the public purse, something which employees of the Royal Mail appear to have "conveniently forgotten". The managers of the RM may well be a bunch of W*****s, but the Union show no sign of being any better, in fact far worse, for they are in singularity, oblivious to the Global economy, or so it seems.
The real difference is he was prepared to commit his beliefs and principles to his own actions, as opposed to hiding behind a collective agreement to shaft the Taxpayer, and "employing" (yes, you muppet), you pay for those "benefits", a Union representative (ie) not someone of sound body and mind but, in general, a "Loud mouthed Yobbo" who has only his own interests at heart, just like the Managers' he is negotiating with.
And there you have the answer, changing fortunes indeed, your "fortune" days are over, the public is no longer happy to fund a loss making business just to keep people in work......you and the Rail Unions are the last Bastion of a failed and incompetent "Socialist Republic" that was heralded by the pre 1979 Government.....how you have survived this long is incredulous by any stretch of the imagination......French or German ownership of the "Royal Mail" will be your legacy......and Bruce Willis summed it up perfectly, YKAM
Just like the Muslim Fundamentalists you will have to acknowledge at some point......the future beckons, not the past.....move on!!
Last edited by Dingo; 13-07-2009 at 02:22 AM.
Employment law is almost too heavily stacked in favour of the employee. Lets go back to childcare, lets say you, and only you, see a member of your staff stealing from the till. If you fire them on the spot, you have to be able to prove it, this actually is quite hard, the advice my parents got was to install CCTV above the till. Even down to little things like if you let a member of staff use a microwave to heat their lunch, and they put metal in it, its the employers fault for not training the staff member. I think its fair to say that the law really does protect the little guy, often exposing the little employer to too much risk.
You think they will make the same mistake again? Re-hiring someone with such esoteric skills costs £20-40k just for the head hunters fees. I did not blackmail them, I did not extort them, hence my leaving, it wasn't by any extent of the imagination a hissy fit, it was constructive dismissal. I like having the clout the law gives, and some very cheap legal insurance gives me. I don't expect a 200 employee firm, which manages double digit billions to grind to a hault because i'm un-happy with something. What is going to happen, is they are down to only two good developers on the technical side now, so they are going to be absolutely buggered in 18 months time when the market picks up and they need to start doing complex projects with derivs again. As such they will have to pay over the odds for staff (people are already not wanting to work there) and give them good benefits + working environment.
The difference is they will see it as a necesity for their business, with the alternative appartent, they will not be forced by action that not all workers support.
Now if we go back 100 years, to towns where it was only 1 employer and 1 type of job on offer, things where very differen't. But this isn't that at all, this is London, there are probably a few hundread thousand different roles been actively saught, i'm sure the skill set of these guys would overlap with at least 0.1%, which would still be 100 different jobs.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
Really, do you have to? Drink less if you want to be more coherent.
You said you were ranting about Royal Mail not rambling about the jobs market in the Victorian era - and you told me to stay on topic earlier? Geeez. And you're beginning to sound as if being invited to leave your job has hurt your pride. Aww.
Hey guys, good debate, but lets keep the insults out it - disagree by all means - but keep it civil! Too good a thread to close!
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote
