Why do people vote BNP?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

As such in my industry I wouldn't say one is 'better' than the other, that is moronically racist, and given the mobility of been highly skilled, there is almost total pay equality, as once someone's been relo'd they will have offers for other jobs in 3 months if they're good.

Maybe this is why I just don't 'get it' because I live in a highly skilled bubble world of jobs, where there is such shortage having all the people with the requisite knowledge in the world move here would do me no real harm at all.

I agree with you entirely. People always think that immigrants equal cheap labour and tend to forget that with highly skilled immigrants this is not the case. If you are good at what you do why the heck would you want to work for less than others in the same country?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Edit!

Forget it. This thread has taken a nasty turn IMHO.

[Blitzen]

You might not want to pick a fight with an 19yo as to who's got the bigger business.

Animus.
I am not picking a fight over business with anyone. It was said that i know nothing about business when that is clearly not the case.

We have all been told a million times how successful you see yourself.

As such in my industry I wouldn't say one is 'better' than the other, that is moronically racist, and given the mobility of been highly skilled, there is almost total pay equality, as once someone's been relo'd they will have offers for other jobs in 3 months if they're good.

I completely agree with (that must be three times this year ).
Unfortuantely, the case is not always that the most skilled gets the job.

In a factory enviroment, the foreign workers most certainly are bought in for their cheapness as opposed to their skill.
To be fair though, the eastern europeans do have a good work ethic which should be applauded (and rewarded).

[Saracen]

Edit!

Forget it. This thread has taken a nasty turn IMHO.

And it's going to take a turn for the better. Either those making insulting remarks stop doing it or they are going to find themselves unable to do so.

There have been several warnings, including one from Oid, and I've made the point repeatedly in recent weeks. My tolerance is at an end.

Next time I see anyone insulting another member in this thread, they get suspended. No more warnings, no more tolerance.

If the insulted member answers in kind, he gets suspended too. So if you're insulted, either bite back the reply or report it but don't join in.


If you disagree with people, argue the points you disagree with by all means, but do it politely.

This thread is going to take a turn for the better, one way or the other.

There's a line in this thread ...


___________________________________________________________________________________



That was it.

[Blitzen]

And it's going to take a turn for the better. Either those making insulting remarks stop doing it or they are going to find themselves unable to do so.

There have been several warnings, including one from Oid, and I've made the point repeatedly in recent weeks. My tolerance is at an end.

Next time I see anyone insulting another member in this thread, they get suspended. No more warnings, no more tolerance.

If the insulted member answers in kind, he gets suspended too. So if you're insulted, either bite back the reply or report it but don't join in.


If you disagree with people, argue the points you disagree with by all means, but do it politely.

This thread is going to take a turn for the better, one way or the other.

There's a line in this thread ...


___________________________________________________________________________________



That was it.

If i get accused of being a 'Racist' or a member of the BNP just because i don't agree and i shouldn't have to tolerate that.... This is why it started this way.
I don't think it's acceptable, do you?
If the Ban Hammer falls my way then so be it.......either way, i will now leave this thread

[SammEl]

You might not want to pick a fight with an 19yo as to who's got the bigger business.

His family, from what I've gathered in other threads bet, and I'll use that term rather than "take a view" on property. He also said they've declared bankruptcy on more than one occasion. I'm guessing they just kept betting hiding behind week bankruptcy laws and a lack of trust due to the stupidity of certain lenders (caused ultimately by bad control of base rates, well with the power of hindsight bad rates, at the time they thought they where been clever.....)

It's a family business, which I have been very involved with, since a young age.

And don't speak on my behalf when you are wrong, you cannot guess as to why people go bankrupt, huge millionaires go backrupt overnight, and the guess you picked was not correct, also, if you wish to play the cheap card with your mate here, I suggest you pick someone else, I'm not a push over like most people on here, I will stand my ground, even if it gets me banned.

Don't suppose you've heard of the 1980 credit crunch?

In the middle of 1980 the economy had been plunged into full scale recession, but the government still pursued its deflationary policies. As unemployment reached the unprecedented level of 3 million (1) There was widespread criticism of the government. During 1981, in a famous letter to the Times, 365 economists signed a letter calling on the government to alter its economic policy and put an end to the recession. (3)

With criticism mounting, even from her own party, Mrs Thatcher was under pressure to change course (a little like Edward Heath had in the early 1970s) However, in a now famous speech at the 1980 Conservative party conference, Mrs Thatcher stood up and defiantly said.

”You turn if you want to, but this lady is not for turning.”(2) It encapsulated her stubbornness and resolve. Fiscal policy and monetary policy remained tight, and unemployment remained close to 3 million until 1986.

I provide details on these forums, I would like it if members like yourself would respect it, I don't "guess" on your personal matters, and neither should you. Thatcher destroyed not only my family, but thousands.

The second I will not state why as I've given you enough information as it is, but let me tell you this, I don't know if you've ever been bankrupt, but I am guessing not due to your post. You think it is a joking matter? It kills people every single year, suicide, divorce, fallings out. And to come back, not once, but twice, and build up a business every single time, it's a huge achievment just getting out of bankruptcy and becoming "normal" again. But you wouldn't know, right?

Take a look over on MSE, see what people go through with your "guessing" game.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...play.php?f=136

And even declaring yourself bankrupt is not easy, even if it will get rid of your debts, it cripples you.

Actually, I'll state what the second reason was, might as well, it was the wrong advice from a bank, and a no way out agreement, we lost a huge sum of money because of it, and it might be going to court soon.

Blitzen, I hate racism, always have done, which is why I responded in that way, I'm not even black, or a "colour", but you even get racism thrown at you because of a surname.

[TheAnimus]

It's a family business, which I have been very involved with, since a young age.

And don't speak on my behalf when you are wrong, you cannot guess as to why people go bankrupt, huge millionaires go backrupt overnight, and the guess you picked was not correct, also, if you wish to play the cheap card with your mate here, I suggest you pick someone else, I'm not a push over like most people on here, I will stand my ground, even if it gets me banned.

So you where involved when you where <5 years old? Come on!

You have also said that your family is in the property industry, which is notorious for people betting on whilst highly geared.

As I said, its a guess. The relivence of it to this thread is minimal. My point is the industry is the important bit, and how one approaches it, people who have gone bankrupt have proved they've made bad calls, failed to think long term, or been two dependant on one stream. Harsh reality, I lost quite a few k not so long ago due to a critical flaw in my business plan I'd been blind to, it was my own fault, its my job to protect myself from the world, or defaulting parties.

Don't suppose you've heard of the 1980 credit crunch?

Yes, I have, and I think its apparent I have more of an understanding than you. Try googling 'heath IMF', and take it from there. But its worthy of a second thread (I might start something about Greece today!)

I provide details on these forums, I would like it if members like yourself would respect it, I don't "guess" on your personal matters, and neither should you. Thatcher destroyed not only my family, but thousands.

Err you do it all the time, everyone does, some guesses work, some not so much.

This one was based on how you mentioned it previously, as if it was a badge of honer!

The second I will not state why as I've given you enough information as it is, but let me tell you this, I don't know if you've ever been bankrupt, but I am guessing not due to your post. You think it is a joking matter? It kills people every single year, suicide, divorce, fallings out. And to come back, not once, but twice, and build up a business every single time, it's a huge achievment just getting out of bankruptcy and becoming "normal" again. But you wouldn't know, right?

I actually ended up loosing all of my cash savings because someone decided they didn't feel like paying a couple of bills. Assets transferred to wifey, failed to show for the first court hearing because his wife was apparently having a miss carnage due to the stress (bollocks, she wasn't even admitted to hospital... yes I checked) During the period between the first appointment and the second they even had the nerve to go on holiday.

I guess I have a VERY low view of people who get themselves into those situations. Even lower someone who would brag about it.

[Saracen]

If i get accused of being a 'Racist' or a member of the BNP just because i don't agree and i shouldn't have to tolerate that.... This is why it started this way.
I don't think it's acceptable, do you?
If the Ban Hammer falls my way then so be it.......either way, i will now leave this thread

I'll tell you the same as I have told other people .... answer politely. Answer with some courtesy. Argue facts or views, but don't trade insults.

If you feel insulted by being accused of being a BNP member, then either report it, or argue it out, with some courtesy.

As mods, we don't want to tell people what to think, or what to say. But we do draw a line on how they say it. We always have.

Either way, calling someone stupid (more than once) is a direct insult, and entirely gratuitous because it isn't even related to the topic of the thread.

If you're accused of being a BNP member and aren't (and personally, while I very much doubt it from what I know of you, clearly I have no way to know) then say so, and point out the error. Or, perhaps, report it.

Blitzen, you and I agree some of the time, disagree some of the time. We don't call each other stupid. Santa and I disagree the majority of the time, but we always do it on the issues and I think (and hope) respect each other even though we disagree. Maybe, partly because we do. I might disagree with him, but I know he can argue his case, and very effectively. So can you.

I'm not trying to pick on you, Blitzen. But we have to draw the line somewhere, and it happened to be you.

And you're better than that. I know you are, having had numerous "debates" over the years. You don't need to fall back on insults. I know you don't, since you've made me hard work for it to justify my stance far too often.

And, nobody is likely to be banned, not unless this goes far, far further than it has. Suspended for a few days to calm down, maybe, but banned, not likely.

But this thread has slipped in the direction of barbed remarks and mild flames several times, and when it gets to the point that other members aren't posting because of it, well, I'll step in. I'm also acutely conscious that for every member that isn't posting and says so, there'll be quite a few that just click on and ignore it.

[SammEl]

So you have been bankrupt, or you lost a lot of money? Didn't quite understand your post.

It is quite a big part of your first statement as you made it out that we somehow took a huge risk for a huge buck but lost out twice, and like I stated, was completely wrong.

Property is actually a part of it, the main part I won't state directly as that is pretty personal, but it's to do with providing a service for the public and councils.

I am 19, you stated that, I have been in the know for 10 years, and physically for a fair few years now in a number of things, you learn a lot in that space of time, especially when your parents has been in it for a very very long time.

[TheAnimus]

We have all been told a million times how successful you see yourself.

Erm I was just trying to point out that it might not be the best bet to name turnover, profits or anything else with a 19yo who's part of a family business as their only exposure. Myself having only ever employed 3 people in my business, I don't think my views here are representative (and my parents I was never involved in HR decisions, only ever admin when they started to really loose the money) as such I kept my personal circumstances out of that post! (but cheers for the reminder )

What I think is actually useful to know where people are coming from is the industry, to determine the skill, and the margin as a ratio of staff.

Obviously if someone is in something which is often thought to be people high and margin low, such as childcare, there is a very low margin and a very large number of staff. This is why most nursery schools are staffed by some people of questionable abilities. (some of the ofsted inspector tails scare me to this day!)

To be fair though, the eastern europeans do have a good work ethic which should be applauded (and rewarded).

And this is something we seam to hear time and again, are the locals just to lazy? Given the high level of our minimum wage, the fact people don't have to work due to our high benefits, surely any job people take they should be willing to do to their best?

[SammEl]

Erm I was just trying to point out that it might not be the best bet to name turnover, profits or anything else with a 19yo who's part of a family business as their only exposure.

Oh my.

You see, you've just done it again, age is not important, you think I don't know numbers? That's all it is, life IS numbers. I took a two year course on "numbers", and it's pretty easy stuff as you must know, but there are a few reasons why I didn't respond.

I know everything there is to know about the numbers of the business, but I will not state them on a PUBLIC forum, if I had an overall income of £8.5m, the last thing on earth I would be doing was stating it in a BNP thread on a public forum that happens to be one of the most popular in the UK.

[TheAnimus]

So you have been bankrupt, or you lost a lot of money? Didn't quite understand your post.

I lost a reasonable sum, all my cash savings and had to live for a little on a credit card (I still had some productised savings), the amount was substantial, but was my buffer amount I'd set aside, my stop loss if you will.

Now this was due to one person and their business technique. But my business plan for failing to address the risk that posed. As such the loss of my money, as always was my fault, just as much as if i'd put it in an icelandic bank.

What ground my gears is how easily the other party got away with not paying me a penny. Thou it looks like i might get 10% of it back now.... Yippie!

Now none of this changes how I treat employees, or business partners so its kinda irrelevance to the topic!

If you want to do a thread of "its ok to not pay people money" then go for it.

[TheAnimus]

Oh my.

You see, you've just done it again, age is not important, you think I don't know numbers? That's all it is, life IS numbers. I took a two year course on "numbers", and it's pretty easy stuff as you must know, but there are a few reasons why I didn't respond.

Actually I find it incredibly hard. Despite working as a Quantatitive Analysist.......

(you might also want to read the rest of the post where I describe the kind of 'numbers' that are pertinent to the debate in hand, social economic breakdowns of views are often quite revealing, especially when overlayed with parental views too.... but obviously you would know all this, you did a two year course on "numbers" after all)

[SammEl]

Actually I find it incredibly hard. Despite working as a Quantatitive Analysist.......

Possibly at what you do, I'm guessing you are looking at whole financial stats here, but at a business ground level, someone operating and controlling their own little empire, it's not too hard as long as you are naturally good with numbers and put the time in needed to understand your situation at all times. I have a pretty high IQ with numbers, actually had the highest understanding of numbers in a school of 1500 when I was in Year 8 (and it went up to year 11) - I just see them as black and white, at this level anyway.

Can't say Market Analysis is in the same ball game here, not from what I have heard.

[Blitzen]

Thatcher destroyed not only my family, but thousands.

At least i can agree with that

if I had an overall income of £8.5m, the last thing on earth I would be doing was stating it in a BNP thread on a public forum that happens to be one of the most popular in the UK.

I didn't say that i had an £8.5M income (i wish i had).
I just run it.

And this is something we seam to hear time and again, are the locals just to lazy?

I think alot of the time, that is certainly the case.

[usxhe190]

With all the arguments between Hexus members over animal slaughter, personal business turnover and Turkey, one thing is for sure - no one wants to vote for the BNP haha