Am I right to be annoyed?

[TheAnimus]

yeh this is the thing, if you don't want everyone you know knowing everything thats mention on the site, then don't be on facebook.

if you don't want to know everything about everyone you don't really give a **** about then don't be on facebook.

for me its mostly the latter. Most of my friends and even those I work with know me rather honestly.

[cptwhite_uk]

I think you're missing the point guys. Lucio's society membership (which obviously he wasn't keen on his whole friend network knowing about) was made public knowledge to all of his friends news feeds without him being able to control that information flow. It's not about the privacy settings of his personal profile, as discussed he can limit that to the bear minimum.

However he can't stop any facebook friend from automatically adding him to any group and having that information published to all of his other friends.

[Lucio]

i'm not a facebook expert, but i understand that issue about being added to groups whether you want it or not

the thing is, when you are added to groups or not, the personal data that people see is provided by the account holder, who has the security options to list what they want

Let's put together a fun little scenario here, since you think I'm so naive!

Your Facebook account has a set of people in it, including your work collegues, you spend your time carefully choosing what you post on there, and for the most part keep things nice and ambiguous like "yay lost weight this week" or "TGIF", nothing mentioned is either controversional or particularly embarressing.

Someone comes along and signs you up to "Gay Lords Anonymous Support Group", which FB duely broadcasts to your friends, family, co-workers and so on. You have no say in this, because FB has decided it's far too much hassle to click "ooh yes, accept please". What's more, it looks like *I've* made the decision to join this group, not that it was forced on me.


Now tell me I'm being naive... because quite frankly this is someone *else* making the decision what *I* post on my FB account.


Anyhow, what I do agree with is the rationalisation that my friend probably didn't know either that FB group behaviour has changed. FB definitely deserves more ire, but quite frankly with their membership count and habits of making changes without giving a damn what privacy concious users might want, **** it.

[MadduckUK]

oh right, i thought they had signed you up to the BNP or something, your allowed to be be gay nowadays Lucio

[Lucio]

oh right, i thought they had signed you up to the BNP or something, your allowed to be be gay nowadays Lucio

Yeah yeah, I'm just using hypothetical situations here, because quite frankly, I'd be insane to post the real details and then complain about someone else making me do it

[cptwhite_uk]

I think it's a double bluff, personally

However I have signed 4 of my closest friends up for the group "sweaty crack appreciation society". I like how you can add friends, then duly leave yourself so only the friends remain.

[Unique]

Let's put together a fun little scenario here, since you think I'm so naive!

Your Facebook account has a set of people in it, including your work collegues, you spend your time carefully choosing what you post on there, and for the most part keep things nice and ambiguous like "yay lost weight this week" or "TGIF", nothing mentioned is either controversional or particularly embarressing.

Someone comes along and signs you up to "Gay Lords Anonymous Support Group", which FB duely broadcasts to your friends, family, co-workers and so on. You have no say in this, because FB has decided it's far too much hassle to click "ooh yes, accept please". What's more, it looks like *I've* made the decision to join this group, not that it was forced on me.


Now tell me I'm being naive... because quite frankly this is someone *else* making the decision what *I* post on my FB account.


Anyhow, what I do agree with is the rationalisation that my friend probably didn't know either that FB group behaviour has changed. FB definitely deserves more ire, but quite frankly with their membership count and habits of making changes without giving a damn what privacy concious users might want, **** it.

so do you want to be part of the group or not? if not just remove yourself from it. if anyone asks, just explain how groups work and someone added you without your knowledge, and maybe say they did it as a joke. if you remove yourself from the group and the wall posting no-one will know it happened in the first place

but at least we've got to the end of the story, it's not your friends fault, it's the way facebook works. your friend might not have even known how things would pan out and was doing it in his best interests for yourself

i'd take it as an important lesson learned. don't let people join your facebook account if you don't want them seeing any side of you that you might not want them to see. or keep your wall private or so people can't post on it. plus you can make separate groups for work and friends that can't see each other so your colleagues don't see your drunken weekend antics and your friends don't see your boring work crap

[MadduckUK]

Yeah yeah, I'm just using hypothetical situations here, because quite frankly, I'd be insane to post the real details and then complain about someone else making me do it

we are non-judgmental here and i think this thread has been running long enough that you arent really going to do much short of removing yourself from the group, and following uni's advice of telling people that somebody added you and shrugging and making a "what could i do?" expression.

so give us closure

[TheAnimus]

Or how about just writing about how much you love the group, especially their discrete nature?

Or you could quit your bitching about something you have total control over, don't use facebook, don't complain when it broadcasts your information, thats its purpose!

[MadduckUK]

ignore theanimus, he is still a bit concussed.

what was the group?

[TooNice]

Following what cptwhite_uk and scaryjim post, I finally get it. I'd still caution about taking it out on the guy though, he might not have known of this change in FB behaviour (this is news to at least 3 of us here). Have a quiet word with him and even if he knew that FB now behaves in this way, I'd suggest pointing out that not everyone appreciates being automatically added to a group (you included) even if FB deem it acceptable. And if he had no idea, then redirect your anger towards FB.

[mikerr]

Indeed, this is probably the biggest Facebook fail I've seen so far. Here's the relevant section from their own FAQs:

Can I prevent people from adding me to a new group?
The functionality of approving a group membership is not available. Similar to being tagged in a photo, you can only be added to a group by one of your friends. When a friend adds you to a group, a story in the group (and in News Feed for Open or Closed groups) will indicate that your friend has added you to a group.

Please keep in mind:

- Only your friends can add you to groups.
- When a friend adds you to a group, you'll get a notification right away.
- You can leave a group anytime. To do so, just go to the group page and click "Leave Group" in the right-hand column. Once you leave a group, you can't be added by anyone else unless you explicitly request to be re-added.

There is not enough facepalm in the world...

Wait, what ? Does this show up on your wall ?

That's going to be abused when enough people find out - not sure whether to laugh or cry !

[Saracen]

so do you want to be part of the group or not? if not just remove yourself from it. if anyone asks, just explain how groups work and someone added you without your knowledge, and maybe say they did it as a joke. if you remove yourself from the group and the wall posting no-one will know it happened in the first place

but at least we've got to the end of the story, it's not your friends fault, it's the way facebook works. your friend might not have even known how things would pan out and was doing it in his best interests for yourself

i'd take it as an important lesson learned. don't let people join your facebook account if you don't want them seeing any side of you that you might not want them to see. or keep your wall private or so people can't post on it. plus you can make separate groups for work and friends that can't see each other so your colleagues don't see your drunken weekend antics and your friends don't see your boring work crap

It's not about whether he wants to be part of the group. It's that he got added to it by someone else, with no say in the matter, and by the look of it, by someone that had the details used to add him by virtue of being a friend, not because he'd provided the society with the details.

Suppose you worked for the RSPCA and someone added you to the militant wing of the Animal Liberation Front (or whatever they're called) group? Suppose you're a teacher and someone added you to the Worldwide Paedophile's Photo Club? Suppose you're a defence analyst at GCHQ and someone added you to a known militant Islamic group? Suppose you work for PC World and some added you to PC World Sucks group?

Some of these types of situation could get someone fired. Some could trigger a serious legal investigation and, for instance, your average teacher doesn't want to even be accused for anything remotely resembling child abuse, even if it's subsequently proven to have been false. A friend of mine was on the receiving end of an allegation like that and it nearly wrecked both his career and family life.

The above examples are illustrations of how this could be used maliciously, but it isn't just possible malicious use. it is also possible that people don't want work colleagues to know of everything they do in their social life, and perhaps more significantly, don't want employers to know.

It's also worth remembering that info on the net is somewhat like the proverbial genie getting out of the bottle - it's very easy to let it out, and virtually impossible to get it back in again.

Though TheAnimus put it rather more bluntly in post #33 than I would have, I agree with his conclusions. The moral of this story is that if you don't want to run this risk, don't use Facebook, or things like it.

In fact, if you don't want something you put on the net to be able to potentially bite you in the ass in years to come, don't put it on the net, PERIOD.

For example, not many people on here could identify me personally. Some could, but not many. Yet, when I take a position on something on here, I'm aware that it could, potentially, be traced to me personally. So ..... suppose I had political ambitions? I don't, by the way. The notion fills me with horror. But suppose I had. Or suppose that even though I don't now, I might change my mind in 5 years, or whenever. I've argued, extensively and in detail that, in certain cases, I support the death penalty. I've argued my stance on criminal sentencing, on abortion, on just about every topical issue and many contentious ones, time and again. So .... in years to come, I run for office .... and get everything I said on here thrown back at me, so either I have to justify it, or I have to swallow it and change tack, and look like a hypocrite and opportunist (maybe I ought to consider a political career after all ).

I'm of an age where a political career is about as likely as me winning the X-factor. So I have no qualms about this. But if I were a few decades younger, I wonder if I'd think the same, and realise that anything I put on the net could affect me in years to come. It could, for instance, scupper job chances with a potential employer. If I ever wanted to work for an organisation run by Gordon Brown (not likely, I grant you) I'd guess he'd not feel best flattered by my opinions of him expressed on here. He'd probably be looking for the first objects he could find that weren't nailed down ... and hence were throwable.


So ..... I find it objectionable that personal information, such as membership of a society, can be released into the public domain by someone that had that information as a friend. I'd even wonder if there's a Data Protection Act breach involved, on the society's part, if that friend was acting as an agent of the Society.

And, the notion that Facebook can make policy decisions that result in this kind of thing happening that may not have been policy when I joined is enough to convince me I was right to not join. And they can presumably make other unacceptable policy decisions in the future, whenever they feel like it and of whatever nature they feel like. An outfit like that don't get to have any personal information about me. The downside, for me at least, is far bigger than the upside. If I had joined, I'd leave.

[TooNice]

I really do not like this change to FB, but the potential damage to me is limited because the people I add are friends I generally have fun, and not professional contacts or family members. I don't think I do anything too objectable (and certainly would keep them outside FB if I did), but the people I add aren't too likely to post anything damaging to my character, and even if someone were to, they wouldn't really care. However..

So ..... I find it objectionable that personal information, such as membership of a society, can be released into the public domain by someone that had that information as a friend. I'd even wonder if there's a Data Protection Act breach involved, on the society's part, if that friend was acting as an agent of the Society.

Is it really considered "public domain" if the only people who can find out about it are people you've added as "friends" (unless you've made your FB Wall visible to the world)? Ignoring groups for a second, would it be a breach if, the person has instead made a post on his wall saying "Hey, thanks for joining our orgie last night. You are now full member of Furry Gangbang. Congrats! "? Said post would insinuate that you've joined a certain club, but it's only semi-public unless your wall is set to public. In which case does the fault lies on you or the person who made the post and didn't know about your privacy settings?

And if you really are concerned about people posting things you do not want everyone else to see, then short of closing the account, you can also lock down the wall, and force people who want to contact you to only do so via private messaging. Or you could also block certain people from seeing/posting your wall through the privacy settings. This change is stupid because people may not expect FB to behave in this manner (at least 3 of us here didn't know), so it may come across that the person willingly accepted to join the group. But once everyone knows how it works, it wouldn't even make a good prank (no better than insinuating something embarassing via a regular post).

[Lucio]

As I've said a couple of times, the issue is that someone else was able to take control of my account in a way that was indistinguishable from my own action.

Basically my friend, acting on behalf of the society, was able to "decide" that I joined this group, and in doing so broadcast this decision to everyone on my friends list. If it'd simply said "Friend X has invited Lucio to join Group Y", it'd have been far less of a problem, because I can publically deny my associations with Group Y.

Anyhow, the long & short of it is that I'm not going to make an official complaint against my friend, because I've made damned sure they won't (nor will anyone else in the society) invites anyone to a FB group without talking to them first. I've also defriended them on FB, because quite frankly it's not worth the hassle.

[TooNice]

In my opinion, you've acted harshly and largely taking it on the wrong person. You can publicly deny, you only need to remove yourself from the group, and put a status like "What the.. FB automatically accepts group invitations without permission! Please do NOT invite me without messaging me first. I WILL un-friend you if you do". So if someone pranks after that, you can un-friend them on the basis that they've crossed a line you clearly stated they shouldn't. As it is, someone else can still make that mistake.

If I was in your friend's shoe, I'd feel like I've extended my hand to you, FB forced that hand to your shoulder, and I got a slap in the face as a result. If said it in the first post that you didn't think it was malicious, and I would question if he knew that people he invites do not get a say anymore (as I said, this was news to a few of us).

Even if you are right to be annoyed, I am rather surprised that you'd take measures that's going to add awkwardness between the two of you, if not cost the entire friendship, while not once directed the annoyance toward FB (which did the equivalent of switching the break for the accelerator).