Heaven: Not so good??

[Elmo]

Rising for the dead - well the simple fact that i believe in the afterlife means thats something thats fundemental. If there is indeed something more powerful than us, why is it not possible for someone to come back to life.

Certainly medicial science allows us to bring people back from the dead now.



TiG

the afterlife (TM) isnt really rising from the dead... The afterlife is what happens to you after you die (that no one knows), and coming back to life means you continue to live your life on earth so i dont see how believing in the afterlife means that rising from the dead is "fundamental".

Secondly, they didnt have defibrillators 2000 years ago

[Stoo]

I'm sure that one day science will be able to fully explain conciousness and spirituality, along with all the other weird stuff that we've not even begun to scratch the surface of.

Personally I think string theory could have a lot to do with it, seeing as everything appears to be a function of vibrations (mucho simplified..)..

[Mike Fishcake]

Anyway, I believe you should have the right to be religious, you should just never use that right,

Make your mind up. It's one or the other! You should, but you shouldn't?

[rajagra]

But this is where the pickle is, because heaven has everything you can ever want etc etc and is only for good people. What if all wanted was to be with your g/f who is in hell?? Seems kind of mean to me to keep the two separated don't you think??

That would be an ecumenical matter.

[Mike Fishcake]

That would be an ecumenical matter.

"YES! YES!"

[iranu]

Its 2005. We have probes on Titan, we have had a man walking on the moon for decades,

He must be quite tired by now, I think I'll send him a cheese sandwich.

[Twigman]

Jesus was real, by the way, he just probably made up the bit about being the son of God. Still, who hasn't done something foolish in their youth to impress a girl, huh?

Im always telling people that Im a god...they dont seem impressed tbh.
Therefore we can conclude that chicks do not dig god.
Religious people dont get the girl. Sad but true.

Ok so God proved his existance by Jesus etc...why not just do it again to "top up" his existance claim...

Just send an email round or something? Belief is waning in him, so why doesnt he just let us know he is still around by sticking his hand out of the clouds and pointing at someone or something? Oh no thats right he "can't/won't"...come on...argue your way out of that one. The millenium would have been the perfect time..."Ok guys I've left it 2000years, but here I am! IM BACK!!!"

[oralpain]

How come Vaul gets to crap on religion, but I can't talk about masturbation?

Anyway, concerning the dark matter bit, they didn't just make it up for no reason, there is evidence to support it's existance. Dark matter is simply any mass that cannot be observed. It's needed to make all this other stuff work. It's a filler to keep all these other laws and theories (concerning gravity and motion of galaxies and such bassed on the know laws of physics) accurate untill we can find out what dark matter is, or we find something better to replace it with. Thats how science works. It's dynamic.

I find it alot harder to discount the scientific method (the method is sound even if some of the theories are not) than to discount religion (wich I don't discount entirely, as anything might be possible). After all, science can give a useful solution to almost any problem, eventually. Most religions can only claim that you don't need these secular solutions and should work on preparing for some afterlife. Just think of all the progress that could have been made in the real world if so many people where not so preocupied with this.

Personally, I see blind faith as being a dangerous hinderance to everyone. Faith casues people to discount any other possibilities, thats what faith is, closing your mind to the idea that you might be wrong about something.

[Kezzer]

We'll find out this year if there's an afterlife or not. I kid you not.

[yamangman]

Is there any purpose Vaul responding to these threads? I think we all know his position already. Although it can't hurt trying to turn the people who seriously believe in this rubbish.

[Grey M@a]

Write, mate. Not taking English, are you?

But yeah, I think I am. Fair play, Hell could be Leeds and the Devil could be John Lesley, but push comes to shove, I'm right.

You are born, you then proceed to 'be happy and don't be an arse', you have kids, you die. Your kids live on, and thats the reason for being.

Its the fact that people can't accept that, that leads to this nonsense. Mixed with a fear of death and the unknown.

Want to know the scary thing I studied English through college etc We shall call that one a slip of the old fingers. Your Leeds comment, you're right (got it right this time Vaul ) it is hell, who in their right mind would make the whole city centre a one way system 0.o As for the devil I do believe that is Orville the duck, annoying little bugger.

Same as Vaul, you are born, you grow, you live your life you then take your ticket and wait in line for your 6 foot apartment under the earth. I don't understand why people fear death in all honesty, you know it's going to happen; you can't stop it, its just a matter of when and how that’s all there is to think about.

Getting back on track of the whole heaven and hell thing, I honestly believe and see it as this. The bible is and will always be a collection of traveller’s stories that were told over the years and someone documented them. The whole good and evil / heaven and hell thing was a way of striking fear in those many moons ago, this planets early versions of what we call law today.

I will tell you what, if they are real which is as likely as me marrying Kate Beckinsale I will eat my words. Other than that I see all religion as a bunch of stories to control people. Even worse is when they come to me in the street and try and ram it down my neck, they soon leave me alone.

Lets look at Christianity shall we, what a load of crap, either these guys dreamed of this crap in their sleep or they discovered LSD all those years ago, Adam and Eve, ok this is almost plausable, man and woman, but we know it was evolution. The talking snakes, I can safely say drugs were in use at this moment of the writing. Rising from the dead, dear god, was George Romero around in this time shooting his new film? I could do this for every religion before you all bible bash me for picking on Christianity, I used it as an example.

[Dougal]

Why do people goto religion?

Because they want to believe that they have something todo with their lives.

You try to tell people that they where not put here for a purpose and a massive portion of those people will give up on their lives, not goto work, stop eating and die before their time.

Religion is there to give people belief in going onwards.

When religion was first started you have to imagine it as though a board of directors had to find a way to make people more productive.

One religion won't do, people are not exactly the same, but they all wanted everything based on the same principles. So the Dead Sea Scrolls where born.

There are probably even older documents that the dead sea scrolls where based on, but they are most likely lost with the ages now.

When man was a primate he didn't have what we would call intelligent form, he wouldn't be able to question why he was here, he had predators, he had to go and hunt his food. Thinking would not arrive for a long time.

ANd now in the current society belief is being questioned again, we have reached the level of intelligence where we do not need to be given a reason to go on, we have initiative we can find our own sources of living we want to explore. Search and so on.

Imagine it as life, when you are a baby you are simple, when you are a teenager you need to be moaned at constantly to do stuff, when you are an adult you actively find something to do and persue it to the end.

(Sorry for any sexism in this post 100% not intended)

[Kezzer]

Why do people goto religion?

Because they want to believe that they have something todo with their lives.

Close, but not quite right. I've read a few religious books and recently i read a book on budhism called "the science of self realisation". It was very good and pointed out that the purpose of life was to serve others. The reason you get a pet isn't really for the compassion, it's because you have to feed it, thus serving it. God is someone you have to serve and since he is the all seeing all knowing all loving then he (or she) is the biggest and bestest thing you can serve It satisfies everyone to serve

[Galant]

BEANFro I'd just like to know, who says heaven is what you said it was or that it works as you say it does?

It's not the Christian viewpoint. Nor Buddhist, Islamic, or anything else that comes to mind.

Seems to me you can't just argue about 'heaven and hell' when all that means is your own notion of what you think it means. If there's going to be a debate on the issue it would be good if we looked at specific examples and teachings.

Straw man anyone?

[shiato storm]

beanfro is in love with a psycho bitch from hell...
is what I conclude from his first post. personally I'd get out while you can mate!