The good news is no more rubbers...

[SilentDeath]

Bazzlad for a christian you've been very insulting and judgemental recently

i would steriotype him as a typical christian/american. god doesnt exist so stfu with ur pathetic argument that abortion is wrong. untill a few weeks atleast after pregnacy, a baby is little more than a few cells - i would compare it to an animal in terms of if its right or not to kill it, and im not a vegetiaran either.

Bazzlad, uve proved that you know almost sweet fa about the subject, a levels mean fa, u may as well say what u got for ur GCSE science. shiato storm and elmo know a lot more than you about it so imo just stfu. and this thread is compleatly off topic now, well done.

[nichomach]

Bazzlad, I note that you still cite no authority for your belief that research supports your contention.

As for the numbers, I'd argue that 242 is still a significant number (especially to the 242 women concerned). You asked, I told you. From where did you obtain the 19,000,000 figure? Given that live births in 2000 were 604,000, and in 2001 were 595,000, if your contention is that there were 19,000,000 births in the years 1997-1999, well, they must have been putting something in the water. Before you tell someone to "do the math", the "math" is often helped by starting with the right numbers . http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2570503.stm

[Slick]

Originally posted by |SilentDeath|
i would steriotype him as a typical christian/american. god doesnt exist so stfu with ur pathetic argument that abortion is wrong. untill a few weeks atleast after pregnacy, a baby is little more than a few cells - i would compare it to an animal in terms of if its right or not to kill it, and im not a vegetiaran either.

whoa, who rattled your cage? Did I say abortion is wrong? All I was refering to was Bazzlad having a go at a few people.

[spikegifted]

Trying to leave the abortion side of the argument out of the thread at the moment (but I do have views about that), let’s just concentrate on the male contraception first.

As and when the ‘male pill’ becomes available, I’m sure a lot of guys will ‘give it a shot’. However, I don’t think many women will actually believe any man (apart from the super disciplined type) can be trusted to take the ‘male pill’ on a daily basis. Why? Let’s just try the following:

1. Do you have a beard? (Yes/No)
2. Do you shave every single day, including weekends and Sundays? (Yes/No)

The reason I chose shaving as an example is because it is not about lifestyle, it is a necessity and it is an intensely private thing (you don’t invite your friends over to watch you shave). If your answer to the first question is ‘No’ (ie. you don’t keep a beard) and your answer to the second question is also ‘No’ (ie. you don’t shave every day), you can forget the ‘male pill’.

I don’t care what your excuse is for not shaving (don’t have the time; no need to; can’t be bothered; the face hurts; etc), it is a reflection of the ability to keep a habit. For god’s sake, a shave sometimes can mean the difference between pulling a chick or going home alone, but many guys try to get away with it. Yes, that’s right get away with it! You may argue that it is cool to have a couple days’ worth of stubble on your face, but what if taking the ‘male pill’ is seen as ‘un-cool’?

[Elmo]

sorry i didnt answer your questions maffu, i only had 10 mins between lectures to post, however i will do now:

Originally posted by Maffu

Elmo – why stop at a decision over an abortion? Why should the father have any say at all on his child all through it’s life, seeing as he didn’t carry it? Why can my Dad have an equal say with my mother when I’m alive, but if they didn’t want me before I was born, according to you, he shouldn’t.

Your dad may have an equal say with your mother about what happens to you, however mine doesnt. Mine left when i was 4, because he didnt CARE about my mother, or me, and he DIDNT pay FA towards my upbringing ever. So, altho he was my father, and we lived with him for 4 years of my life, he didnt have to pay anything, despite taking him to court 4/5 times in the meantime.

At the end of the day, the bloke cannot tell the woman what to do or not to do with her body or the baby growing within it. Its the way it is, it's not going to change so, deal with it.

as for bazzlad:

Before judgin the harshness of my post, please note the tone of Elmo's who is the same age, or perhaps one year older than me. I don't like being called a kid by adults, let alone students.

The tone of my posts has been nothing but informative. I have not intentionally gone out of my way to insult anyone, all i have done is state the facts. If you think you know more about fertility etc than someone studying a degree in it, then that's your opinion, but i'd like to see you sit the exams for it.
As for the "kiddies" comment, that was a JOKE aimed at EVERYONE, not just YOU so please, untangle your panties and stop getting in such a strop.

[shiato storm]

Originally posted by spikegifted

...all about shaving...

yeah, i'd agree with what you say about habit etc. but taking a pill to stop you getting you/your partner pregnant (regardless of whether he - or she!! - shaves) is slightly different. If i KNEW that i absolutely HAD to take a pill, if I wanted to get some (without condoms etc.) then sure I'd damn well take it! (so would she ideally)

oh, and no i don't shave every day, my girl likes me with a bit of fuzz so there

p.s. Bazzlad - go find a developmental biology book and READ some of it.
oh and shut up too whilst you're at it, you're just making yourself look even worse each time you try to put something across, or rather fail to put something across, cause each time you do its flawed... get the facts then speak...(kind of aerican approach to what you're doing there - shoot first ask Q's later, and I'm not too fond of yanks, lots are ok, a lot more are not)

[shiato storm]

Originally posted by Elmo

As for the "kiddies" comment, that was a JOKE aimed at EVERYONE, not just YOU so please, untangle your panties and stop getting in such a strop.

you just hit a nerve thats all...retract - aim, and stab again - might hit a major artery next time!!

[Elmo]

oh, and by the way Bazzlad, if u want some simple, interesting reading about embryos, and zygots etc, have a little peek at: http://www.spuc.org.uk/papers/specialisationofcells.pdf

while what you have said is one of the ideas, it seems that the most recent theory points to what i was saying.

[tiggerai]

I'm with Elmo on this one too.

At the end of the day its the girl who is going to have to give up her freedom for a child.

I definitley believe in it being a mutual responsibility, you can never be too careful.

Oh and Knox...
"well as condoms are the reccomended contrceptive pretty much everywhere and the morning afterpill is not availdable as readily as condoms it could be argued that the condom company are responsible at least in part."

The pills are available quite readily actually, all you need to do is go to a local pharmacy. Levonelle they call it...

[Slick]

my g/f just told me she's gone on the pill, no injection for me then

[Maffu]

Originally posted by Elmo
sorry i didnt answer your questions maffu, i only had 10 mins between lectures to post, however i will do now:

Your dad may have an equal say with your mother about what happens to you, however mine doesnt. Mine left when i was 4, because he didnt CARE about my mother, or me, and he DIDNT pay FA towards my upbringing ever. So, altho he was my father, and we lived with him for 4 years of my life, he didnt have to pay anything, despite taking him to court 4/5 times in the meantime.

At the end of the day, the bloke cannot tell the woman what to do or not to do with her body or the baby growing within it. Its the way it is, it's not going to change so, deal with it.

You're forgiven. I guess not everyone can be blessed with a job that allows scope for browsing.

Anyway: I'm not saying the bloke can say what to do. From what I could tell from your first responses, you were saying it's a woman decision. I'm saying it's both. Both are as equally important. It takes two to make it. It should be two that decide upon it.

And you can't tell whether the father, or indeed mother will leave a few years down the line as to whether the father or mother should, or shouldn't have a say as to whether a baby is kept.

My opposition to your final statement - the woman shouldn't have 'final say.' I know, especially in the courts, that's probably the case, but the "decision" should be a result of the two parties involving in creating the kid. If you're old enough to hav sex, you should be old enough to realise the consequences if protective measure do not work.

tiggerai - yes, the woman does give up her "freedom" but unless both partners are happy adopting, that's the way it's always going to be, so it's a little unfair to use the "well, I'm carrying it" card when it boils down to who has the bigger say. It's not as if the bloke can have it. Well, not yet.

[Bindibadgi]

Originally posted by [GSV]Trig
I'm still waiting for the male morning after pill tho, changes your bloody type

ROLF!

[Elmo]

Originally posted by Maffu

the woman shouldn't have 'final say.' I know, especially in the courts, that's probably the case, but the "decision" should be a result of the two parties involving in creating the kid. If you're old enough to hav sex, you should be old enough to realise the consequences if protective measure do not work.

my point is tho, that if the bloke wants it and the woman doesnt, what then happens? he cant force her to go through 9 months of pregnancy, most of it hell, sore backs, morning sickness, etc etc, then the pain of the birth for 12 or more hours when she doesnt actually WANT the child. So, the final desicion IS up to the mother. Whether it's what should happen or not, it's not going to change. I totally agree that it SHOULD be a joint desicion, but in most cases it'll be black or white, not grey. So if one person says black and isnt going to change and the other says white and isnt going to change, someone has to make a final desicion, and this will be the mother. as i said, it's just the way it is i'm afraid...

<edit> i used the wrong quote, it's sorted now tho</edit>

[SilentDeath]

i agree, womans decision.. but i dont think that the man should have any responsibility if he wants the abortion, that imo would make it fair.

im against any anti-choice/religion based laws/rules because they are stupid, and things like this are serios and are VERY dependant on the situation, and religeon has no good reson to have any say in the matters anyway, esp as they are all fake... (sorry if it offends you to hear your religeon is fake.. religeons have no usefull purpose anymore like they did decades ago... theres other ways of teaching laws and morals now...)

[Maffu]

Originally posted by |SilentDeath|
esp as they are all fake... (sorry if it offends you to hear your religeon is fake.. religeons have no usefull purpose anymore like they did decades ago... theres other ways of teaching laws and morals now...)

Heh.

[Elmo]

Originally posted by |SilentDeath|
i agree, womans decision.. but i dont think that the man should have any responsibility if he wants the abortion, that imo would make it fair.

im against any anti-choice/religion based laws/rules because they are stupid, and things like this are serios and are VERY dependant on the situation, and religeon has no good reson to have any say in the matters anyway, esp as they are all fake... (sorry if it offends you to hear your religeon is fake.. religeons have no usefull purpose anymore like they did decades ago... theres other ways of teaching laws and morals now...)

i think that was a bit harsh. I'm not in any way religious myself, but i wouldnt tell someone their religion/god(s) dont exists just because i dont believe in them. Everyone has a right to their own beliefs.