Originally posted by Bazzlad
Sorry mate but I totally disagree with you, it's a childs life
So are you saying abortion is wrong and should never be allowed ever? What if a woman is raped and gets pregnant as a result? Or is it her fault for not asking her rapist to use protection?
Its not a kid - its a collection of cells that are so early in development it is deemed acceptable to terminate their growth.Originally posted by Bazzlad
Sorry mate but I totally disagree with you, it's a childs life, and I couldn;t live with myself after allowing one to die, and COME ON, how many women die via pregnancy in this age?
And you've blatently taken my feminism quote out of context, and as for
One body being ones own,
doesnt the kid have that right too?
Accidents happen, people are stupid and make mistakes, but to deny the right of a person to abort a pregnancy on the basis that it is a life they are carrying , even though they are in no position to have a child or DON'T WANT A CHILD is ludicrous.
It all comes down to the argument of when that collection of cells becomes a foetus, and when that foetus becomes a baby. Where do we draw the line ?
You can't force a mother to have an unwanted child, similarly by your argument a rape victim would have to have the baby of the perpetrator - would you be happy about that if you were related to the victim ?
why should a man have a higher say about what happens to a woman's body than her herself? The fact of the matter is, abortion is there if it's decided that that's what is to happen. It's a free choice. And as such, no one has the right to tell the woman what she can or cannot do with her body.Originally posted by Maffu
If it takes two people to make a baby, then it should take two people to decide if they don’t want it. You’re irresponsible if you manage to create something “unwanted,” but just because the woman carries the baby for 9 months takes nothing away from the fact that without the bloke, nothing would have happened. It’s an equal effort to create it, it should be an equal effort to decide whether it’s destiny.
Also, in regards to bazz's post, if decided early, this "childs body" is no more than a few undifferentiated cells. It also hasnt got a fully working brain and cannot think for itself. Yes, everyone has a right to live, and have a life, but it's not always the best thing for the child.
As i said, the choice is there and there's no use anyone arguing over what a woman should do. At the end of the day it IS her choice and there's nothing anyone can do about that.
I'm neither saying abortion is right or wrong, just that there is that choice.
Ok then they've proved that plants have feelings, so you're saying that when the zygote has formed the blastoise *SP* stage, which is when most abortions happen, it can't feel?
The second two gametes fuse together to form a zygote it is a life.
About the whole rapist thing, I still don't think an abortion is neccesary, simply put the child into care.
How the hell can it be a collection of indifferentiated cells, Elmo?
I doubt that "a collection of indifferentiated cells" could split and form a human life, the most incredible thing on this earth.
So you'd have some poor woman go through 9 months of mental hell, go through the pain of giving birth and then have the child catch up with her 18 years later and discover it wasn't wanted in the first place?Originally posted by Bazzlad
About the whole rapist thing, I still don't think an abortion is neccesary, simply put the child into care.
gg you!
And you'd rather kill a child?
Nice morales, Go you!
And Elmo,
I didn't say a higher say, I said an equal say.why should a man have a higher say about what happens to a woman's body than her herself?
Actually yes, but then I wouldn't consider it a child. I'd rather have someone is alive not suffer.Originally posted by Bazzlad
And you'd rather kill a child?
because they ARE undifferentiated until they're told what cells to become i.e heart, liver, kidney, skin cells.Originally posted by Bazzlad
How the hell can it be a collection of indifferentiated cells, Elmo?
I doubt that "a collection of indifferentiated cells" could split and form a human life, the most incredible thing on this earth.
You sound like you've done biology, so how come you dont know that much?
As for putting a child of a rapist into care, dont you think that would cause the child more trauma? being dragged from pilar to post into different foster families and then at the age of 16 being kicked into the world to fend for themselves? But not only that, not knowing who ur parents were, or finding out you were the result of a rape attack.
as for "the second gametes from a zygote it is a life" it's not. It cannot fend for itself, it is just a cell with a neucleus and the ABILITY to become a life. It doesnt have the correct organelles to life a life of its own without any input from the mother, unlike single celled organisms such as paramecium.
Go read ur biology books again.
so what happens if the woman doesnt want to keep it and the bloke does. It's a stale mate situation, who has the last say?Originally posted by Bazzlad
And Elmo,
I didn't say a higher say, I said an equal say.
I think u'll find in 99% of the cases it'l be the woman who gets the last say.
The most recent stats I could find were for the period 1997 - 1999; in that period 242 women died directly or indirectly due to pregnancy - http://www.parliament.the-stationery...464/464w34.htmOriginally posted by Bazzlad
Sorry mate but I totally disagree with you, it's a childs life, and I couldn;t live with myself after allowing one to die, and COME ON, how many women die via pregnancy in this age?
edit: This is much improved from 1952-1954 where 1,812 women died, but I would argue is not a negligible number.
No, I haven't, in fact I didn't quote you at all, I merely offered the opinion that your definition of feminism was ludicrouslly restrictive. I'd add inaccurate as well, though.Originally posted by Bazzlad
And you've blatently taken my feminism quote out of context
Until a foetus is delivered and becomes a person in being under the Queen's Peace, it is not a child; a foetus accrues no rights at all and that's exactly how it should be. I don't want ANY consideration of the putative "rights " of an unborn child interfering with any decision that affects the health of my wife, for instance, yet were a foetus to have "rights" that is precisely the logical concliusion that could arise.Originally posted by Bazzlad
and as for
One body being ones own,
doesnt the kid have that right too?
Last edited by nichomach; 07-10-2003 at 01:42 PM.
I did A level human Biology, How the hell can you call the gametes undifferentiated, the most advanced Scientists couldn't even start to make anything half as smart as that. The information which builds an entire human resides within these cells, I wouldn't call them undifferentiated, each one WILL become something and they reckon that they are all marked to what they will be rather than your idea that they're picked at random, HEY THIS ONE LOOKS STRONG, it'll be the heart.
And it is a life when the gametes fuse a Zygote
Parasitic organisms rely on hosts or will die and is classed as a life the zygote relys on its host too.
Go read ur(sic) english books again.
AND HAVE ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY BEEN THROUGH THIS, OR AT LEAST THROUGH THE MOTIONS, I HAVE, TWICE, I PRESUME THE MAJORITY OF YOU ARE MERELY SPECULATING.
Calm down. Just because you have been through it doesn't make you any more correct or incorrect than someone who hasn't. Nor does it make you more entitled to an opinion.
Maybe not, but it gives me a damn better insight to the arguments, emotions and to a lesser extent, the facts.
I was pro abortion until I was placed in the situation myself and actually had to think about what it meant.
I never said that. Did you read what I wrote? I said a man AND a woman are needed to create the child. Therefore, said man and said woman should decide, if needed, the outcome of their child. It's not the mothers child, just because she carries it. It's the result of two peoples actions, therefore the two people should decide the direction that their actions have resulted in.Originally posted by Elmo
why should a man have a higher say about what happens to a woman's body than her herself?
And, Bazzland, you don't need to have experienced something in order to have an understanding of it.
LOLLOLOLOl
Sorry, it's not a funny subject but you called me
BAZZLAND!
Lol
I never said you needed to experience something to have an understanding at it, but it helps......... a lot.
I personally wouldn't take advice about a PC from a Car Mechanic, I don't know about you.
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