why did it happen to me?

[Slick]

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
Mate, I think the only reason people flame you is because your posts can be a little antagonistic with respect to cannabis users. Sometimes your posts come across as if cannabis use is the root of all evil in the UK, when everyone knows that the root of all evil in the UK is people drinking 9 pints of Stella...

Sorry if it comes over like that, I just have pretty strong views bout it cos of what it did to me and my mates. I've written before in QT that if you're an occasional responsible user then I don't have a prob with it. If I wasn't on the phone to my g/f last night I probs would have gone out the back with everyone who was smoking it, just not joined in.

[Punky]

Originally posted by Big RICHARD
Typical selfish attitude of a drug user! It's all 'me, me, ME!'
You need to buck your ideas up. You are still a minor. If cannabis were legal, you would still be breaking the law by smoking it, as the age to use it would be 18.

i was just stating my point of view and experiences, not saying that all other people should act and live by my views.
good job i'm 18 on sat then aint it, haha. peace.

[G4Z]

Originally posted by Big RICHARD


Drugs do cause harm society, either directly or indirectly.

how exactly?

I take the point that some drug abusers can cause problems, but I dont see how this is any different from prgnancy, some women get pregnant and sponge off the state and bring up 8 kids who will make their neighbours lives hell for the next 18 years (or until they go to prison) other women are responsible and have only as many kids as they can afford (or want). what im saying is that its not all black and white, alcohol causes all those same problems (probably ona much larger scale) and I dont hear you calling for it to be banned. This is probably because you enjoy the occasional drink but your not an alcoholic, dont cause any problems and you dont see any reason to ban it. well, same with spliff smokers.

[spikegifted]

Personally, I don't have a problem with cannabis being legalized. If the law changes and that the possession of it (in whatever quantity) and the usage of it will not be breaking the law, that's fine. There's certainly sufficient evidence out there to suggest that smoking weed does not cause substantial health problems and that it does not result in anti-social behavior (of the type that we associate in modern Britain, anyway).

However, there's one final hurdle to get over before I'm comfortable with the legalization of cannabis... I know how the model in Holland works - you can physically walk into a shop and buy and smoke the stuff. There're cannabis dealers around that only sell you weed and the implements that you need to smoke it. That's great - an open, unregulated market - weed if freely available and there's no criminality associated with it. Meanwhile, you look back to the UK... Who can you buy weed from?

The problem is that, right now, the very people you can buy weed from can also sell you all kinds of dangerous drugs - ecstasy, cocaine, heroin and other hard drugs. I’m not suggesting that your dealers actually have all of these with him/her at all times. However, they can either get their hands on them with little difficulties or they know someone who can get you what you want (they certainly know the market better than any users). At the point when cannabis is legalized, these very same dealers will be dealing in both legalized drugs as well as illegal ones. How would a first time user of a legalized drug know what to do when the dealer promises him something that gives him/her a better ‘kick’?

It is all about economics and distribution channels. At the point of legalization, the only channels available for obtaining cannabis will be via existing dealers. Until some ‘more open’ channels of distribution become available, many of the dealers will be dealing in both legal and illegal drugs. Moreover, dealers don’t deal in drugs for love, they do it for the money. (And please don’t tell me there’s nothing else for them to do!) When a drug becomes legalized, the profit margins are going to fall, as other forms of distribution come into play. So, what are these dealers going to do to maintain their profit margins? One of the ways is to set up shop to deal in bigger volume. That’s the ‘good thing’ that can happen. However, there’s a darker alternative - they start dealing or get more involved in dealing other higher margin drugs, which are again illegal. Don’t forget, drug related crimes affects the Dutch society just as much as the British, there’re, by proportion, as many people addicted to hard drugs in the larger Dutch cities as there in those in the UK.

[Punky]

Originally posted by spikegifted
However, there's one final hurdle to get over before I'm comfortable with the legalization of cannabis... I know how the model in Holland works - you can physically walk into a shop and buy and smoke the stuff. There're cannabis dealers around that only sell you weed and the implements that you need to smoke it. That's great - an open, unregulated market - weed if freely available and there's no criminality associated with it. Meanwhile, you look back to the UK... Who can you buy weed from?

in Holland, you can only buy weed in coffeeshops, not on the street. the weed you buy is to be smoked either in a coffeeshop or in private. the dutch police look down on and will stop people smoking it in public. they are damn efficient with dealing with the dealers of harder drugs as well (i saw a policewoman dive off a moped to catch a street dealer!)
the dutch crime stats for addicts is a hell of a lot lower than here, i'll dig out the figures later. plus the average age of heroin and crack addicts is getting higher as kids realise how stupid it is through good education policy (actually giving them facts, not just 'dont do it cos its bad' crap).
we can learn a hell of a lot from the dutch, its just that our government are too narrow-minded to look outside their sheltered little views. peace.

[evildoc614]

Why is some ppl feel so strongly about weed? You dont need to bash they guy cause he messed up damn! big deal he smoke a joint! Some of you sound like you need to smoke a joint and relax... i guess some of you are with out sin or have never broke the law in some small fashion... give me a break. next time you screw up make sure you tell the judge that since you broke the law that you think you should be hammered! every one can say he deserved it but wait till you are put in that position, and see how quickly the tables turn

[spikegifted]

Originally posted by evildoc614
i guess some of you are with out sin or have never broke the law in some small fashion... give me a break. next time you screw up make sure you tell the judge that since you broke the law that you think you should be hammered! every one can say he deserved it but wait till you are put in that position, and see how quickly the tables turn

That's the completely wrong attitude towards the rule of law!!

Laws exist in society, simple. They're there not to be bent or pushed and see if you can get away with it. No!! Getting caught breaking of law, no matter how small the infringement is, deserves punishment. That's what the law says. There's no emotion nor prejudice in the application of law.

If you don't want to be caught or punished, there're two ways of doing things: 1) don't break the law to begin with, or 2) break it and try to get away with it. There is a choice. Getting caught breaking the law and then b!tch about it after is just plain naive! If you don't like the law, have it changed if you can. Otherwise, go buy a desert island and live like a king there. If you can't, live with it.

[G4Z]

Well, the reality is if you likely to buy one drug then you may well be inclined to try others, for me this started with... you guessed it alcohol. So I dont think its gonna make much difference to the harder drugs really, I do though think that it would be good to give people the opportunity to go and buy it from a shop rather than have to actively look for a dealer and that may well cut out some people moving on and screwing their lives up but in all honestly people who want to take drugs will take them regardless of its legal status. In america you can get life (in some states) for possetion of weed and yet still lots of people smoke it. I just dont see why the government has the right to tell you what you can and cant put in your body, whatever the circumstances. The only person that decides what I take, is me. It is a misconception that drugs ruin your life, in a lot of cases they can improve your life for the better and really make you look at things in a different way.

[shiato storm]

ok, theres some truth in what you're saying. yes drugs make you look at things differently and yes you should be able to decide what you put in your body or not, but lets face it thats not going to convince many people on why drugs should be either legalised or not. but I think you are missing the point and I hesitate in wanting to call you immature in your opinions because you must have some sense of reason in there...

Its all wrapped up in the social problems drugs cause. Ok, so YOU may not be affected adversley towards the drugs you might lay your hands on but no one is the same. some people get all happy and have a good time, other poeple get seriously violent and end up ruining other people's lives - beating them up, rapeing them or even murdering them.
there's also the money problem - which I know you're about to say "well if they legalised it there wouldn't be a problem"... well you'd be wrong. take an example (though not the same it may be similar):
America early century; Prohibition. in that time when Alcohol was illegal (drinking, owning etc) more alcohol was consumed than if it were legal. they make it legal again and nothing changes, alcohol consumption still high. think of it with drugs - made legal, now everyone can get their hands on it...its a freeely available comodity that poeple clearly take advantage of.
its also a lot cheaper which makes it so accessable.
drugs are expensive.
if some one who becomes dependant on drugs has no money what do you think they do? hmmm?
they go and mug/rob etc. to get just that little bit more. they don't go to work, thus claim off benefit, and spend most of their time off their heads (thats addicts by the way). they become a drain on society. Have you ever met or seen a drug addict? have you? to say it is a misconception that drugs ruin your life is so far off the ark you might as have been aiming into space...
yes they chose to inject/snort/whatever into themselves but look at them now. rock bottom. its a sad sight to see someone like that but they exist as examples of what it really is to have ben affected by drugs.

there's also the issue of addiciton and the dangers of drugs. hardcore users that just consume drugs need more each time round, don't question that - its a fact, the chemicals in each injection start to replace the natural chemicals in the brain and the rest of the body. So much so that you eventually become (here comes the Buzz word) "Dependant". the brain acts differently, so differently in fact that normality is a distant dream to these poor unfortunates. with thoushands of dependants already, just think of the degredation in life if millions ended up like that.

it is known that certain drugs actually kill. if not 'cut' properly the power form drugs can be lethal when a low grade cutting agent is used. you don't hear about it but believe me when I say it, lots of people - addicts - who have taken poorly cut drugs die. their body just cannot cope with even a mild infection or disease because of how thier system has been messed up from continual abuse.

Again I'd accept that in some cases smoking weed has been proven to increase the quality of life for people with disabilities but to use that as a basis towards 'make drugs legal because I choose what goes in my body' isn't strong enough.

if a substance can cause such problems why legalise it?...at least with alcohol you just wake up the next day feeling crap, the effects of ecstacy (for example) last 3 days...

[shiato storm]

oops, apologies if there are some missing letters etc, essecially the "M". My keyboard is old and doesn't work unless I press very hard... not easy if typing fast...sorry

[G4Z]

Well, I think that you have some rather tabloid style sensationalist assumtions in there. You are assuming that just because some1 becomes dependant that they become a drain on society. Well I know a lot of drug users (and I mean a LOT) and I cant say I know any addicts like you describe. I know some of my friends have had periods of severe addiction but none of them suddenly turned into criminals, they tended to just get in to a financial hole and then have to go vist the doctor who would basicaly put you on anti-depressants. I only know one or two people who have got that far and it was mainly due to stress from other sources in their lives and are now back on track and dont have a problem. I think you have a few misconceptions there that make me think you dont have any personal experience with this stuff. Also bear in mind that the drug we are discussing here is cannabis. It has been proven that it is only psycologicaly dependant, so there are no withdrawals, most people only smoke on weekends or maybe just every now and then, others all the time. I personaly smoke every day and I have several freinds who are similar, they are all doing well for themselves and none of them are addicts spongeing off the state. and as for your "certain drugs can kill" that is totaly correct, the number 1 killer drug through overdoes is.... paracetamol. put in perspective, 2 million ecstacy users every weekend (conservative estimate) and how many deaths do you hear about...? when they do occour the papers are all over it, but they never seem to run the story about the 40,000 alcohol related deaths that ocur in the UK every year. I assure you I know what I am talking about here, I have tried most things, some are real bad for you (thinking ampetamines here... urghhhh), but I think others can acutally offer some1 real insight into themselves and the world around them, There Is a webbie womewhere around with loads of stories good and bad avbout excstacy use for real users http://www.ecstasy.org/experiences/index.html

worth a read.

would also like to add that there has NEVER been a single recorded case of death from cannabis overdose. would be kind of like trying to overdose on tea wouldnt it...?

[spikegifted]

I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to get at...

I think, for most people anyway, the reason they don't want to legalize cannabis is because it is associated with other hard drugs. And I'm fairly certain that those who're really against legalization will give you a rather long lecture about 'if we legalize cannabis, what else is going to be legalized next?'

As I have mentioned in one of my previous posts, the chances of scoring something else other than weed from a dealer is relatively high, if you want to and some people (myself included) will have a problem with dealers selling legalized and illegal drugs at the same time. I'm aware that a lot of people exercise a lot of self control. However, for the politicians, they don't want to be blamed for some kids who ODed because they managed to score something a lot harder than weed from a dealer...

[DaBeeeenster]

I dont think anyone is proposing that we legalise the dealers. The general proposal is to allow regulated and licensed outlets to sell the drug, after it has been legally grown.

The only reason cannabis is associated with other drugs is due to its legality. Cannabis is, in terms of effect, FAR less serious than both alcohol and its peer illegal drugs (amphetamines, methamphetamines, ecstasy, cocaine, heroin, 2CB etc).

IMHO your argument that dealers often can source/sell other, harder drugs, is simply another reason to legalise cannabis. Break that link in the chain (by allowing people to buy cannabis from the government or a government regulated organisation), and a lot of people will stick to drugs no harder than cannabis.

[G4Z]

yeah, I think really the fact that dealers sell it is because its illegal, you dont find many of them selling alcohol now do you?
as long as its illegal dealers will sell it, so if you want to prevent this there is only one way, and that is to either, legalize growning for personal use (but of course only some ppl would want to do that and would carry on going to dealers) or to legalise selling of it and undercut the dealers. although I have met many of these "shady" dealers and tbh they are generally normal people and Ive never had one try to sell me sommat else when ive gone for weed. Of course you can ask them about other stuff and 9 times out of 10 they will know some1 that can get it for you. I would say only 50% of the dealers I have known sold anything other than weed, but most know where to get other stuff.

[spikegifted]

Dealers don't see drugs because it is illegal, but because of the potential profits. However, the profits are there because the illegality of drugs. It's a supply-demand thing, I think.

On the other hand, if and when it is legalized, there cannot be a regulated market as such. Weed is not like tobacco, it can be grown just about anywhere. A 'regulated' market will simply encourage people to grow them by themselves... which may or may not be a good thing.

[Punky]

homegrowing is a good thing at the moment, as it eliminates dealers for those lucky enuff to grow their own herbs. but if it was legalised, i do see a problem with it.....if the government regulate the ganj that is sold, they will most likely limit it to crappy weak stuff. if people are growin nice pokey buds, then a black market situation could occur. maybe this is just me chattin rubbish, but i recon its a valid point.
see, i can make posts showing bad points as well as good about the weeeed.
peace