The best 9-11 theory ever...

[Pirate Pete]

OK, so I got a video wrong, I watched it a long time ago and it conjured up in my head while writing the post.

A democratic election - what does that have to do with the public obviously 100% knowing what went on 9/11. The fact is, one of the biggest influences on the conspiarcies, that blasted video, is deeply flawed and if you say otherwise you've had too much of ye old better.

You obviously do not think whilst writing your posts and you clearly do not have even the smallest grip on the frequency and credibility of the hundreds of other videos like 'Loose Change'.

I think you are officially discredited from commenting on the 911 conspiracy subject until you think just slightly more than as if you had monkey brains before you write your posts on the topic. Do some more research on these videos and the subject in general and realise that 'Loose Change' is not the only media that has influenced the voters in that and many other polls.

[MonkeyBum]

You mean this?

Aye loads of coverage, yeap.

[WLC-1989]

You've lost me MonkeyBum. Not one of your posts has made any sense, nor appeared to taken heed of what I or Pirate-Pete have said. Lost cause...

[MonkeyBum]

If you watch the video, you see two men giving their media courage supporting the conspiracies. One of which, was interviewed on two news channels in american. His opinons, are ridiculous. As you'd see.

[Pirate Pete]

Hang on, this is a 9 minute documentary made by two magicians who's whole trade is in lying to people and you want to use it as a good way to debunk the 911 theories?

How can you not see how badly you are losing this debate? You are even kicking yourself when you are down for crying out loud.

Think before you post next time.

[WLC-1989]

If you watch the video, you see two men giving their media courage supporting the conspiracies. One of which, was interviewed on two news channels in american. His opinons, are ridiculous. As you'd see.

And that proves what, exactly?

[Clunk]

No what?

no tomatoes?

[MonkeyBum]

Hang on, this is a 9 minute documentary made by two magicians who's whole trade is in lying to people and you want to use it as a good way to debunk the 911 theories?

Yes, I am, mostly. Those two characters been the most influiancial celebrities in america who support this conspiracy and contribute to it.

How can you not see how badly you are losing this debate? You are even kicking yourself when you are down for crying out loud.

What's your point? It's not a comptetion to see who can out do each other, believe it or not. It's a public discussion board. You know, the place when you're meant to respect other people and what they have to say. Clearly that doesn't grasp you, mr pirate. A lot of things don't seem the grasp you. Like the obvious.

[WLC-1989]

To be honest MonkeyBum, I think you'll find that clip is not the thing which caused such high percentages of the US public to have doubts about the official story of 9/11. Surely you can see posting that video just displays a very small group of people, and therefore has little to do with the mass as a whole?

There's a woman who lives down my road who talks to the walls and the pigeons: Does that mean all women are crazy too, just because her and a few other odd-balls who co-exist in the park are? Of course not, and to put everyone in the same league just because you post one silly video of little relevance proves nothing of the sort. Furthermore, your initial arguements revolved around a blatantly fake sketch, which as Pirate-Pete pointed out, should have been rather easy to deduce was just that.

[Pirate Pete]

What's your point? It's not a comptetion to see who can out do each other, believe it or not. It's a public discussion board. You know, the place when you're meant to respect other people and what they have to say. Clearly that doesn't grasp you, mr pirate. A lot of things don't seem the grasp you. Like the obvious.

I have respected you and given you chance to put forward your points. The problem was all those points were based on stupid comedy shows or 9 minute documentarys by magicians featuring blatant actors in the place of real theorists (why do you think that guy let them film him dressed in an air force uniform jumping around like a bird?) - I'm hardly going to let this excuse for real evidence against the false flag operation idea stand as valid now, am I?

On the contrary, it is YOU who is not respecting me. You should respect WarrenL and I's intellect and give us some valid points for a change.

And what are you talking about these things that do not grasp me? Why would they grasp me? Surely i would be the one having to do the grasping of these topics?

Once again: THINK before you post.

[Bazzlad]

Sorry mate, but in my opinion the 9-11 conspiracy crap holds as much weight as us not landing on the moon. Bored geeks with a little knowledge of a subject are a bad thing.


A little knowledge is dangerous.

[Parm]

The conspiracy theories just annoy me, I was in New York city the day the Twin Towers came down and it felt bloody well real to me.

[Bazzlad]

My Missus was there (she's New Jersyian [is that a word>?!]) she doesn't think it was Bush planning to start war with Afghanistan.

[Knoxville]

[QUOTE=Pirate Pete]Oh yes, thats right, the theory is total BS even though in a recent poll nearly 70% of the voters on CNN said that they found more credit in the alternate theories about the attacks than they did in
the official US government version of events. This is just the most recent poll i have noted, there have been many others in the American Press especially over the past year where

the results were very much in favour of the 911 Truth movement.

So 70% of americans don't believe the official government press release? They're probably right to disbelieve it as there probably are omitted details that have been left out just to try and cover the bush administrations ass, its the same with any government press release, they never tell the whole truth and the public know this. It doesn't prove that theres a conspiracy, it only proves that people think something ain't quite right with the publics trust in their government.

Saying Loose Change 911 insults those who died on the day is a totally redundant statement.

Surely any lies on the part of the US government is a much bigger insult to the memory of those people than just questioning the official line? If there is even the slightest possibility that these theories hold ground they should be investigated the to fullest extent before any action (such as an invasion of Afghanistan) is taken. Instead what we saw was the illegal disposal of evidence from the WTC complex and the introduction of the Patriot Act (ALA Hitlers Enabling act) and Homeland Security (see Hitler's Fatherland Security). Having to investigate and expose these lies yourself as a citizen is a compliment to those who died and definitely not an insult.

For me as a histroy student your comparison of the way hitler came to power in germany and the way bush introduced those laws speaks volumes about just how much research you've actually done and how much you've read of biased websites, it also renders your opinion null and void on that matter.

As for investigation into other theories, why would the government waste investigating theories that can't even hold water on an internet chatroom let alone in the real world.

Just because Dylan Avery is still alive is not proof that what he is saying is rubbish. Think about it from one other angle other than your stupid macho West vs Arabs angle.

If Dylan was taken out because he had dug to deep would people not just be able to gather that that act alone added credibility to his efforts - hes been silenced because he was getting too close to the truth and therefore what he was saying must have been something serious. Taking him out would be counter productive to people who would want to cover up what he is exposing.

What the hell has west vs. arabs got to do with dylan avery?

Nevermind.......

He'd have been taken out, plain and simple, a car accident, fire in his home even a mugging gone wrong. He'd have been taken out and no-one would've cared, no-one would've thought it gave his efforts any more credibility because he'd have been dead within 24 hours of posting the site and the site taken down, no-one would've had chance to even look at his work if it in any way endangered some kind of huge secret conspiracy that thousands of people had already been killed over.

Instead of taking him out the people who would have set something like this up can use a different tactic known as character annihilation....persuade people he is a loony and no one will listen to him - the lie survives. I would say Maddox is instigating this exact scenario whether he realises or not.

Character annihalation is used in situations where you can't be seen to physically harm your target, when as i've already explained if they'd wanted to they could've have taken him out quickly and quietly leaving no-one any the wiser.

People aren't employing character annihilation with him, they just think he's an idiot.

Maddox' claims that it could not have been an inside job due to the huge amount of people that would have to have taken vows of secrecy for their part in it is also pretty redundant. Imagine things as a pyramid chain of command - the large amount of people at the bottom not told why the people above them in the pyramid want them to be planting explosives in WTC 1,2 and 7 except that it is a 'matter of national security' and the people who told the lowest level to plant the explosives are not told why they have to tell those people to plant the explosives and so on. This all fits perfectly when you come to the understanding that there was a training drill running on the day of 911. It was running out the exact same scenario that did actually occur, the same thing was also going on on 7/7 - this could be used to tell the people planting the explosives when they questioned what they were doing a few months in advance of 911 that they were part of this drill and that the explosives were duds. It could also be used to cover up any evidence that comes out about direct involvement in the attacks, 'oh, that was just part of the drill'
Only the people at the very top of all the levels of the pyramid would have to know the absolute scheme of things.

Oh my, I don't think I can even come up with a retort for that, it destroys itself as your're reading it.......

People are waking up in record numbers and realising the accuracy of these theories. A new type of civil rights movement is already taking form and surfacing from the underground in America. Key people from Hollywood have started coming out and proclaiming that they too do not believe the official line (look at Charlie Sheen a few months ago). MI5 agents have started coming out and saying they do not believe the official line on 911 or 77 (Read the Shayler Affair or watch David Shayler's Mind the Gap documentary).

As i've said, the offically line probably has a percentage of BS in it, thats why some people don't believe it. Not because they believe every conspiracy theory going. And as for Charlie Sheen, he's a great guy but he's drunk more than he is sober so he probably didn't even know what he was saying.

The more we argue about this the more our freedoms are being stolen from us and the more we are submitting our armed forces to being cannon fodder in illegal wars. So please read some books, look between the lines of your daily news reports and take some initiative before it is too late and we have lost all our freedoms to a pack of lies.

Yes our freedoms are being taken away from us, but that has little to do with 9/11.

I would email Maddox and tell him how much of a fool he is being but i know he would just ignore me and write up some stupid comment on his website claiming he 'destroyed my yellow ass'. In the end do not forget that the stuff on his website is obviously meant for comical value and is really not a great way to argue against the overwhelming evidence that 911 was a false flag operation. Its just childish.

I may never ever say this again but comical value or not Maddox is right on this one.

If you have read this far without jumping the gun and starting to write a counter post without thinking or hearing me out I will reward you with a lovely little qoute which i feel applies excellently to this situation:

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin

Just the fact that 6 of the supposed hijackers are still alive and well in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia i think) should be evidence to suggest something EXTREMELY fishy was going on on the day of 911 which deserves PROPER investigation by uninfluenced researching groups.

A very good quote, but you underestiamte the cowardice of the american people, had bush not put any new laws or acts in place they'd have been screaming from the rooftops for him to put something in motion that could make them feel safe. All he did was predict what the public would want right after 9/11. Now he's being criticised for it but had he not put those laws in place he'd have recieved criticism there too.

Now i'm not saying I agree with bush, or the laws he's put in place after 9/11 but he couldn't do right for doing wrong in that situation.

As for the missing hijackers situation its called bad intelligence, the military has to deal with it all the time.

[Bazzlad]

I never thought I'd agree with you Knoxville.
I was wrong.

Rock on.

[Pirate Pete]

The conspiracy theories just annoy me, I was in New York city the day the Twin Towers came down and it felt bloody well real to me.

Look buddy, no one in this thread is saying they did not happen. It happened, it was very real. What we are saying is that the people they told us were behind it are not the ones behind it. The whole evaluation of the attack was a lie.

This post will probably be extremely long and i will try and clarify exactly what it is that the Conspiracy 'Nuts' are banging on about. However, i will only manage to scratch the surface.

What we are talking about here is something called a Problem Reaction Solution scenario.
This is where you provide or show your people a Problem, they give you a reaction and then you offer them a solution which they will not refuse to gain safety and security (or other rewards). In our case much of the modern day PRS are implemented through False Flag operations. False Flag wiki definition:

False flag operations are covert operations conducted by governments, corporations, or other organizations, which are designed to appear as if they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is, flying the flag of a country other than one's own. Terrorist attacks may sometimes be in fact false flag operations, as in the Italian strategy of tension in which several bombings in the 1970s, attributed to far-left organizations, were in fact carried out by far-right organizations cooperating with the Italian secret services. Elsewhere in Europe, the Mouvement d'Action et Défense Masada, supposedly a Zionist group, was really a neo-fascist terrorist group which hoped to increase tension between Arabs and Jews in France. In 2005 in Basra, Iraqi police detained British soldiers from the Special Reconnaissance Regiment. They claimed that the soldiers were firing at Iraqi security forces and intent on planting bombs in false flag manner. The soldiers were unceremoniously released by British Army destruction of the cell block they being were held in.

I was going to talk about that example from 2005 at the end of this post but i do not now see the point because the papers were all reporting the truth. However, somehow the British troops still came off looking like they had done something heroic. Infact they had undermined the new Iraqi police and performed an action that was totally illegal in breaking the 2 SAS out of the prison who were being detained for shooting at Iraqi police cars (whilst sitting in clapped out cars dressed as arabs). They never told us why they were doing what they were doing, instead we were hushed up with images of a 'Heroic' British service man burning whilst Iraqis pelted him with rocks

This scenario is nothing new. It has been played out throughout human history. Dating as far back as Nero in ancient Rome:

On the night of July 19, 64 A.D., a fire broke out among the shops lining the Circus Maximus, Rome's mammoth chariot stadium. In a city of two million, there was nothing unusual about such a fire -- the sweltering summer heat kindled conflagrations around Rome on a regular basis, particularly in the slums that covered much of the city. Knowing this, Nero himself was miles away in the cooler coastal resort of Antium. Yet this was no ordinary fire. The flames raged for six days before coming under control; then the fire reignited and burned for another three. When the smoke cleared, 10 of Rome's 14 districts were in ruin. The 800-year-old Temple of Jupiter Stator and the Atrium Vestae, the hearth of the Vestal Virgins, were gone. Two thirds of Rome had been destroyed.

History has blamed Nero for the disaster, implying that he started the fire so that he could bypass the senate and rebuild Rome to his liking. Much of what is known about the great fire of Rome comes from the aristocrat and historian Tacitus, who claimed that Nero watched Rome burn while merrily playing his fiddle. Gangs of thugs prevented citizens from fighting the fire with threats of torture, Tacitus wrote. There is some support for the theory that Nero leveled the city on purpose: the Domus Aurea, Nero's majestic series of villas and pavilions set upon a landscaped park and a man-made lake, was built in the wake of the fire.

This particular event with Nero is even written about in the Bible (IIRC). You can see very clearly that Nero has used terror on his people to achieve goals for himself. He has most likely ordered and even funded the gangs which stopped people putting out the fire and even ordered that the fire be set ablaze personally. He used the peoples fear to order a rebuilding of Rome to his specification and to acheive huge amounts of power for himself (bypassing the Senate). Problem (the fire), Reaction (need for Rome to be rebuilt, emergency command demanded), Solution (Nero rebuilds Rome to his spec and gains huge amounts of power). The scenario has worked exactly how Nero wanted and the people have been tricked into submission.

Now lets look at Hitler in 1933 storming to dictatorial power after the Reichstag burned down.

The Nazi party did not hold a majority in the Reichstag so Hitler found it hard to pass laws as they had to be ratified by a majority. Hitler solved this problem by burning the Reichstag down. On 27 February 1933 The Reichstag was burnt down. Hitler blamed the event on the Communists by planting a Communist, Marianus van der Lubbe, in the Reichstag with matches and fire lighters in his pockets.

The Law for the Protection of the People and the State was a law that banned Communist and Socialist parties from taking part in elections. Hitler was able to pass this law through Hindenburg, using van der Lubbe as an excuse.

In March 1933, elections were held and of course Hitler won a majority.

On 21 March 1933 the Reichstag was reopened in the Kroll Opera House. This allowed Hitler to pass an enabling law so he could govern the country on his own, with out the Reichstag's consent. This was only suppose to last four years. A two third was needed so Hitler arrested 81 communists and made deals with other parties. In the end the only party that opposed the motion was the social democrats.

First of all, do not say that the proof of this Reichstag false flag operation is not conclusive because it is so conclusive that there was even a question about it in my GCSE History paper when I took my GCSEs. You can see clearly that Hitler has used the problem that he has presented the Reichstag assembly, and more importantly the German people with to pass through laws (such as the enabling act, throwing away the Reichstag assembly) which they would otherwise have not allowed because it means the destruction of their freedom and the conversion of Germany from (in the 20s) the second most developed country in the world after the United States into a Fascist Police State. Totally destroying their freedoms and putting them on the war path into destruction.

To clarify this lets look at a quote from Goering after the Nuremburg hearing in 1947:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

Obviously, you can see that Goering knows exactly what a Problem, Reaction, Solution is and he knows exactly what he can get from using it.

Göring's possible role

At Nuremberg, General Franz Halder stated in an affidavit that Göring had joked about setting the fire:
On the occasion of a lunch on the Führer's birthday in 1942, the people around the Führer turned the conversation to the Reichstag building and its artistic value. I heard with my own ears how Göring broke into the conversation and shouted: 'The only one who really knows about the Reichstag building is I, for I set fire to it.' And saying this he slapped his thigh.

Goring + Julius Caesar

Without a doubt the Reichstag fire bombing was Hitler's PRS scenario. He gave Germans a problem (the Reichstag). They gave him a reaction (huge drop in support for Hitler's main political rival party, Communists. A demand for better security measures.) He gave them the solution (Hitler elected, Communists, Jews and other minorities clamped down upon and police state measures implemented in Germany of the course of the next decade). You should now be starting to understand that throughout Human History governments have been implementing these measures upon their people to get them to submit to their wishes.

There are likely to still be more doubters so i will provide more examples of PRS scenarios taking place before moving onto very modern day PRS.

In 1953 the CIA and MI6 overthrew the democratically elected leader of Iran. Mohammed Mossadegh. Mossadegh had been educated in the west, was pro-America and had driven communist forces from the north of his country. He was elected in 1951. He nationalised the Iranian oil fields shortly after election and denied BP (then Anglo-Iranian petroleum) a monopoly. This was of course why he was overthrown, BP and Anglo-American corporation could not and would not allow their monopoly to be taken away. Operation AJAX was initiated and is even written about and admitted on the CIA website.

From Wikipedia:

Operation Ajax (1953) (officially TP-AJAX) was a covert operation by Great Britain and the United States to remove the nationalist[1] cabinet of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh from power, to support the Pahlavi dynasty and consolidate the power of Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi. The idea of overthrowing Mossadegh was conceived by the British. They originally asked President Truman for assistance, but he refused. When Eisenhower became president in 1953, the British proposed the idea once again, and this time, the Americans agreed to help.

Rationale for the intervention included Mossadegh’s socialist political views and his nationalization, without compensation, of the oil industry which was previously operated by the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (which later changed its name to The British Petroleum Company) under contracts disputed by the nationalists as unfair. A particular point of contention was the refusal of the Anglo-Iranian Oil company to allow an audit of the accounts to determine whether the Iranian government received the royalties it was due. Intransigence on the part of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company led the nationalist government to escalate its demands, requiring an equal share in the oil revenues. The final crisis was precipitated when the oil company ceased operations in Iran rather than accepting the Iranian government's demands.

The newly state-owned oil companies saw a dramatic drop in productivity and, consequently, exports; this resulted in the Abadan Crisis, a situation that was further aggravated by its export markets being closed. Even so royalties to the Iranian government were significantly higher than before nationalization. Without its own distribution network it was denied access to markets by an international blockade intended to coerce Mossadegh into reprivatization. In addition, the appropriation of the companies resulted in Western allegations that Mossadegh was a Communist and suspicions that Iran was in danger of falling under the influences of the neighboring Soviet Union. But Mossadegh refused to back down under international pressure.

For the U.S., an important factor to consider was Iran’s border with the Soviet Union. A pro-American Iran under the Shah would give the U.S. a double strategic advantage in the ensuing Cold War, as a NATO alliance was already in effect with the government of Turkey, also bordering the USSR.

In planning the operation, the CIA organized a guerrilla force in case the communist Tudeh Party seized power as a result of the chaos created by Operation Ajax. According to formerly “Top Secret” documents released by the National Security Archive, Undersecretary of State Walter Bedell Smith reported that the CIA had reached an agreement with Qashqai tribal leaders in southern Iran to establish a clandestine safe haven from which U.S.-funded guerrillas and intelligence agents could operate.

Operation Ajax was the first time the Central Intelligence Agency was involved in a plot to overthrow a democratically-elected government. The success of this operation, and its relatively low cost, encouraged the CIA to successfully carry out a similar operation in Guatemala a year later.

This overthrow was particularily bloody with MI6 and CIA funded groups machine gunning crowds, attacking a mosque and bombing religious leaders. They then handed out hand bills saying that Mossadegh was behind it all. Mossadegh was then imprisoned, his high ranking officials executed and a puppet government installed in his place which gave the monopoly back. The False Flag operation here shows again that governments are not afraid to lie and decieve in order to carry out their operations.

That's as much as i can write in this post. I hope you have 'enjoyed' reading it and understand better that these theories hold serious ground and must not be ridiculed anymore. It is a scary realisation to come to and i have spent the past 3 years comprehending it. We must realise that fear is what fuels these PRS scenarios to work. We CAN defeat the people who are constantly initiating these false flag operations. We CAN expose them, but we need universal knowledge and understanding of them with no more detraction from the point with silly little arguements. This is serious.

Even though i know i will just face yet another torrent of anger from the board I am going to continue with another post. However, as this post took me literally 2 hours to compile and write i dont expect the concluding post will arrive for a while yet.