Hybrid CrossFireX DirectX Mismatch

[Keyboard]

I'm going to be building a PC soon that will have a mobo with HD3300 integrated graphics that supports DirectX 10.1 and Hybrid CrossFireX.

If I fit a DirectX 11 Hybrid CrossFireX discrete video card, and then play a DirectX 11 game, will I be able to benefit from the CrossFireX support of the HD3300 integrated graphics, or will the HD3300's lack of DirectX 11 support render it unable to contribute?

The system will be running Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

You would need an HD3450 or a similar DX10 card with 40 stream processors to use Hybrid Crossfire with an HD3300 IGP. However Hybrid Crossfire is pointless as an HD4670 would be faster than an HD3200 and a HD3450 card in Hybrid Crossfire.

My advice would be to go for a 770 based motherboard with a better plug in graphics card.

What is your budget as I could list you some parts?!

[Keyboard]

Hi CAT-THE-FIFTH, thanks for your reply.

I hadn't considered 770 based boards. I'm set on an mATX, and I'd prefer if the BIOS allowed core unlocking. I'm looking at getting a Phenom II x2. I want to build now, and not wait for USB3 and SATA 3 based mATX to become available, and I don't think I'll ever justify the cost of Core ix based on my current PC usage.

I would be using the PC for games (but not as taxing as Crysis etc.), and maybe SETI@home crunching, plus the usual browsing and emails.

My understanding is 770 mobo's don't have onboard graphics (not a problem, especially if the reduced cost of the mobo can offset against the graphics card cost), and aren't AM3. I was aiming for a 790 based mobo on the grounds that the latest was the greatest, it would be more future proof, and DDR3 RAM costs are almost the same as DDR2 now. I've seen 790 boards for around £70-£80, about the same as 785 boards.

As for budget, if I can get performance for my middling demands, and some future proofing but at a price reduction over Core ix, then I'm happy. I'd probably go Core i5 if mATX SATA3 USB3 boards were available at resonable cost, but I don't want to wait 6 months.

I would definately welcome your suggestions

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

There are 770 based AM3 motherboards with ther SB710 southbridge which allows unlocking. However all 770 based motherboards I know of are ATX.

The main advantage of the mATX 790GX based motherboards over the 785G ones are better VRM voltage regulation as the 790GX based mATX motherboards tend to have more phases.

However the mATX 790GX based AM3 motherboards are not very cheap:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/174602

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/DFI-L...Board-Graphics

An ATX 770 based AM3 motherboard can be had for around £50 to £70 though.

Regarding the processor an X2 545 for under £65 is worth a look or either an X2 550BE if you want to overclock abit more. I would also look at the X3 720 too for around £90. The Athlon II X3 and X4 is a decent processor but its lack of L2 and no L3 cache is not good for gaming purposes though.

[Keyboard]

I've been contemplating the options. The ASRock was what I was planning on along with the Phenom II x2 BE. The DFI I wasn't aware of, but I don't need dual discrete graphic card crossfire for an extra £30. Nice card though for the LAN party people. I know I'm constraining myself by sticking to mATX, but at least the lack of options makes the decision making process easier.

Thanks for your suggestions, CAT-THE-FIFTH

[Zhaoman]

What is your intended budget for this system? If you're going for CrossFireX then I assume it is pretty tight but as CAT said two bottom-end gpus really can't compare to even a low-midrange solution so if you wish to play games then I would try to stretch to at least a 4670.

As far as I know DX10 gpus cannot run games in DX11, also you cannot pair anything other than a HD34xx with the IGP in CrossFireX so DX11 cards will not work with it. The DX11 gpus currently available are considerably more powerful and expensive than a CrossFireX setup so you really are looking two completely different systems when you say DX11 and CrossFireX.

[Keyboard]

My plan was to build the system and see how the onboard graphics would be. At some point in the future I would need to upgrade my graphics card for DirectX 11 games, and I wondered if it would be possible to get some benefit from the onboard graphics. I see now from what you and CAT have told me that this is both technically improbable, and pointless anyway.

Currently I have a Radeon 9250 64MB GPU - slow and DX9. I think that the onboard DX10 HD3300 with 128MB sideport memory will be a step-up for me, and allow me to play some of the newer games (although the recent release of the Tales of Monkey Island series only requires DX9.0c installed, and a 64MB DX8.1 compliant card ). I plan to hang on until I need to upgrade, or just playing existing games becomes unbareably flickery, and then look at a DX11 card. Having said that, Resident Evil 5 which I've also got my eye on recommends DX10 and 512 MB ATI Radeon HD 4800 or NVIDIA GeForce 9800. The minimum is DX9 and 256 MB ATI Radeon HD 2400 or NVIDIA GeForce 6800, so I could allocate some system RAM and play it.

Budget wise, I was hoping at less than £100 for the graphics card. Is that realistic? For the rest, I've kind of settled on the ASRock mobo mentioned by CAT and a Phenom II x2 550 BE (about £150 for both). I've also shortlisted the case, PSU, 4GB RAM and have existing DVD R/W and HDD. I made sure I got a copy of Win 7 HP when they were on pre-order. After that, in the New Year, I'll start thinking about a monitor to replace my 17" CRT.

[Zhaoman]

Yeah with £100 you can definitely pick up a nice card to run your games.

The 5750 should fit the bill very nicely (DX11 ready and would be a HUGE upgrade from your onboard ):

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1GB-X...-DL-DVI-I-HDMI

[scaryjim]

Currently I have a Radeon 9250 64MB GPU - slow and DX9. I think that the onboard DX10 HD3300 with 128MB sideport memory will be a step-up for me, and allow me to play some of the newer games ...

It will be an upgrade, but don't expect it to play the latest games at anything above 1024x768 with low detail settings and running a DX9 codepath. Running DX10, even on a HD3300, kills the performance - see the bottom graph on this Hexus review page. You would be much better off getting a cheaper 760G / 785G mATX motherboard and a HD4670: this ASUS Card at ebuyer is amazing value at ~ £45. Any motherboard based on the 760G or 785G chipsets will have the SB710 southbridge that can help unlock the extra cores in a Phenom II, and they start from about £40.

As far as Hybrid Crossfire goes, the HD3300 only allows use of a 2400 / HD3450. The HD4200 on a 785G board is meant to support all cards up to a 4650, but I doubt you'd see any significant benefit from the extra 40 cores (vs 320 on a 4650) once the overhead of running in Crossfire is taken into account (reviews have shown that in DX10 Hybrid Crossfire actually produces lower framerates than just the IGP on its own...)

[Keyboard]

Wow, I started this thread thinking I had made my decisions on the build but I see there is so many more options now. I'm not complaining - I'd rather know now than after I've started spending money. I appreciate yours and others input and knowledge.

That Hexus review link certainly brings home that the onboard graphics will be virtually unusable with DX10. Interestingly, it also shows how the Intel Core 2 duo is significantly better than the Phenom with a discrete card which is a bit worrying, although they were looking at the Phenom and I'm going with the newer Phenom II.

The 760 mobos are 20-30 quid cheaper, but the cheapest boards tend to have a maximum (not OCed) memory speed of 800MHz, whereas the 790 can do 1333MHz not OCed - 62% better. Am I correct in thinking that this would not have much of an effect on games, but would impact something like seti@home?

Anyway I'm going to have to start thinking again.

[Zhaoman]

Budget wise, I was hoping at less than £100 for the graphics card. Is that realistic? For the rest, I've kind of settled on the ASRock mobo mentioned by CAT and a Phenom II x2 550 BE (about £150 for both). I've also shortlisted the case, PSU, 4GB RAM and have existing DVD R/W and HDD. I made sure I got a copy of Win 7 HP when they were on pre-order. After that, in the New Year, I'll start thinking about a monitor to replace my 17" CRT.

I think this build was perfect. A 5750 would be a mighty fine gpu for £100 to go with that. Also the PhenomII CPUs have comparable performance to Core2s so you don't have to worry about your CPU underperforming.

edit: The problem was CrossFireX so now we don't have to think about that it's a lot simpler

[Keyboard]

I think this build was perfect. A 5750 would be a mighty fine gpu for £100 to go with that. Also the PhenomII CPUs have comparable performance to Core2s so you don't have to worry about your CPU underperforming.

Thanks. ASRock 790 (faster RAM bus, that's my excuse) & Phenom II x2 it is then. And when I find the on board graphics frustrating - probably within 1 week of using the PC - I'll look at getting that GPU.

The problem was CrossFireX so now we don't have to think about that it's a lot simpler

Oh yea, the reason for this thread - I'd almost forgotten. LOL.

Thanks guys.

[badass]

You can get some mATX 785g based motherboards with the sideport memory.
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Asus-M4A785TD-M-EVO
TBH I think all of this core unlocking hope is pointless as it's a bit hit and miss so if the above motherboard can't do it I wouldn't worry.
Also, to save money, go for an Athlon II now as they are fine and go for a proper Quad core later.
Athlon II triple core CPU's are very similar in Price to a Phenom II dual core.

I recently bought a mATX 785g based motherboard without the sideport memory, a Athlon II dual core and using only a single DDR3 DIMM on the motherboard so I really crippled the performance. I was still well impressed with what the IGP could do - Left4Dead was playable with everything on Medium at 1280x1024.
I would imagine that 2 DIMMS and sideport would improve things a bit.

Then, next year I would get a 5000 Series Radeon Gfx card

[Keyboard]

TBH I think all of this core unlocking hope is pointless as it's a bit hit and miss

Looking around the forums it seems there's about a 50:50 chance that the cores will unlock AND they are usable and stable. I'm taking the pragmatic approach and accepting I'm buying a two core chip and if nothing unlocks then I won't get bent out of shape about it.

Athlon II triple core CPU's are very similar in Price to a Phenom II dual core.

Thing is, again from what I've read, for a given clock speed dual core chips are slightly faster than quad core (that might be just Intel, I can't remember), that most games don't benifit from more than 2 cores, and those Phenoms have 6MB of level 3 cache which is supposed to make a difference (and CAT mentioned that too), whereas the Athlon II has none. Of course, you have to pay extra to get a Phenom vs an Athlon II, so it's a personal choice thing. Three cores would probably be better for the SETI@home number cruching I plan to do, but this is secondary to gaming performance for me.

I was still well impressed with what the IGP could do - Left4Dead was playable with everything on Medium at 1280x1024.

That's sort of what I was hoping to hear, that someone who is using the IGP has found in practice the IGP is usable at reasonable settings with newer games. Although from the link that scaryjim gave for the Hexus review, once DX10 starts to dominate, a discete graphics card will become essential IMHO. It seems many recent games are still DX9, or if they are DX10, they have been coded to work with DX9 also. Thanks for your comments, it's given me hope.

Then, next year I would get a 5000 Series Radeon Gfx card

If I find the IGP is usable for my typical usage, then I'll hold off as long as possible, then get a DX11 card when the prices have dropped a bit. Well, that's the plan.