Who's expecting delivery of a Fermi card tomorrow?

[scaryjim]

According to the hexus review the only test in which the 5970 is not > 10% faster (@ 1920 x 1200) is HAWX. In the majority of the other tests it was around 20% faster at that resolution.

But, if you're genuinely only gaming at 1920x1080, a single 5850, which is half the price, would be more than sufficient for smooth framerates. And Hexus' recent xfire test showed that 2 5850s can comfortably outpace a GTX480 at the same price, and keep up with a 5970 despite costing significantly less. All that, plus they draw less power and run cooler and quieter despite there being 2 of them! So, unless you are either ATI or crossfire phobic, the best current way to spend ~ £450 on grpahics cards is almost certainly a 5850 xfire setup...

[jjgreenwood]

I hear you're logic, but the idea is to get a system where I can add an additional card at a later date to play games that demand more power. In that solution I need to dispose of 2 cards to add more. If I go for a 480 I can add one (which is hopefully much cheaper in the future) and get 91% performance improvement. All for the same price and very similar performance.

[kalniel]

I hear you're logic, but the idea is to get a system where I can add an additional card at a later date to play games that demand more power. In that solution I need to dispose of 2 cards to add more. If I go for a 480 I can add one (which is hopefully much cheaper in the future) and get 91% performance improvement. All for the same price and very similar performance.

If you really wanted to add cards to get more power then there's nothing stopping you doing that if you've already got two 5850s - many motherboards come with three or more graphics slots now, and crossfire scales up to three cards at least very well. But really, adding more of the same card at a later date is usually a false economy - architectural and process improvements are such that you're nearly always better off selling your old card and getting a single new generation card when you need it.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

i think the fermi's are a fail. Still people have been waiting nearly a month for these cards to come out.

I heard the Yields are terrible and toss in the volcanic ash makes things alot worse

[kalniel]

I heard the Yields are terrible and toss in the volcanic ash makes things alot worse

It's okay, they don't use volcanic ash (directly) in these cards.

[DanceswithUnix]

If you really wanted to add cards to get more power then there's nothing stopping you doing that if you've already got two 5850s - many motherboards come with three or more graphics slots now, and crossfire scales up to three cards at least very well. But really, adding more of the same card at a later date is usually a false economy - architectural and process improvements are such that you're nearly always better off selling your old card and getting a single new generation card when you need it.

Agree that usually adding another card for SLI at a later date is a bad idea, but I think in this case it is very hopeful thinking.

Whilst I doubt some of the rhetoric against the Fermi and suspect that salvaging a 460 part on top of the current 470 and 480 boards will allow the range to continue for a while at a small profit, it still seems obvious that this chip is basically a cock up. When you want to add another card, are you prepared to buy a part like this off ebay, because by then I suspect Nvidia will have rushed out something like a 580 part to fix their yields. After all, if they are re-laying out the chip they might as well apply other tweaks they wanted along the way.

What do you think the chances are of a 480 pairing with a 580 in SLI.

[Lee H]

What do you think the chances are of a 480 pairing with a 580 in SLI.

We've more chance of Hell freezing over and Yellowstone in America erupting, rather than nvidia allowing the SLI of 2 different series of graphics cards together.

[jjgreenwood]

Agree that usually adding another card for SLI at a later date is a bad idea

fair enuf, I still can't work out why having 2 Nvidia graphics cards is a bad idea and having 2 ati cards is a good idea. If 5850 and gtx 480 are pretty much the same price. Pretty much the same performance. Why go for the ati solution when the nvidia comes with the extra physix, 3d and other bits. Lets face it a bit of electricity when ure graphics cards cost £400 - £500 ain't gonna concern you much. I think the more I read the single card solution seems the way to go. at least the gtx480 leaves the sli option open.

Availability is prob gonna decide it all anyway as the gtx 480 hasn't even arrived yet and if it doesn't arrive this week then I'll ask em to put in a hd5970 instead and just pay the difference. A basic one is only £45 more or £100 more for a sapphire oc version.

[TooNice]

But really, adding more of the same card at a later date is usually a false economy - architectural and process improvements are such that you're nearly always better off selling your old card and getting a single new generation card when you need it.

That is my take as well. I reckon that the only time when it makes more sense to buy two cards instead of one, is when you want to buy both card at the same time, and by doing so, you save a fair amount of money compared to a single card (e.g. 5850 Crossfire vs 5970). Thanks to improved scaling over the years, such scenario are plausible nowadays. It used to be that two card only improve 50-75%, so it is always better to buy a single £500 card than two £250.. if you are going to spend that type of money.

At £410 for the cheapest GTX480 at Scan (on pre-order anyway), the bang for buck between two 5850 and a single 480 narrows quite a bit. Actually, if I replace £440 with £410 on this page http://www.hexus.net/content/item.ph...=24061&page=13, the Bang4Buck score for the 480 would be 0.815 @ 1920x1200 and 0.587@ 2560x1600. Assuming that £225 is still as cheap as a 5850 will go, the gap is not too huge. And for people who draw value from CUDA/PhysX and the 5850 XFire may not be the most straightforward choice.

So if you someone care more about nVidia features than absolute bang for buck and other aspects where the 5850Xfire work out better (energy consumption and everything that goes with it) then I think that the 480 may be appropriate. What I do doubt however is that the 480 will get much cheap enough to make sense buying a second one later on. Flagship products tend to get phased out before they drop in price much, and occasionally, they end up being more expensive. I don't think there will be a big market in the second hand market for the 480 either. So even if you manage to find a willing seller, you may not really find a willing buyer when the time comes to rid of them both (it's not exactly the most popular card for the power consumption etc.). Whereas the 5850 will be plenty for someone's 2nd rig in years to come.

[jjgreenwood]

So even if you manage to find a willing seller, you may not really find a willing buyer when the time comes to rid of them both (it's not exactly the most popular card for the power consumption etc.). Whereas the 5850 will be plenty for someone's 2nd rig in years to come.

a bit of a double edged sword then really. If they are not popular they get sold for next to nothing, my initial purchase is a similar price to 2 cards, but cos someone isn't bothered i get one cheap, or its the next big thing and the second gets really expensive.

I'm thinking now the whole argument is a little pointless. Talked to scan today and one bloke said he thought the 5970 was much better and I should do that. Went through to system build and the guy was loving the 480, he reckoned drivers would come out which would beat a 5970.

At the end of the day it don't really matter, if the new PC plays crysis in 1920x1080 with full detail I'm gonna be happy. I can't see the card when I play, and with the new reviews doubt I'll hear it much either once the speakers are hooked up. If it ends up not being delivered to scan then I'll get a 5970 and prob be happy with that.

[TooNice]

If they are not popular they get sold for next to nothing

Either that, or they don't sell it at all. I can't speak for others, but I know that back when I used to buy in the top end, I was reluctant to rid of them later on because on one hand they did not justify their premium, yet on the other, I was not ready to sell something at 1/5th to 1/10th the price (after enough time) even though it was relatively worth that much. So the gear would end up in a secondary or even tertiary box. That's why I prefer to stick in the mid-end 'bang for buck' segment these days.

For most intent and purpose, the 5970 perform about the same as two 5850. You do get the benefit of a single card which you seem to be looking for, they do crossfire too so could theoretically add one at a later date, though I don't think it make much sense for the same reason as getting a 480 now and another later (and the fact that it's quite a bit more expensive than two 5850). Besides, the 6xxx series should be here by the end of the year, and while it won't beat the 480 SLI/5970 XFire, it's bound to be much better value and depreciate the former.

If it's Crysis you are looking to play, the 5970 (therefore two 5850 by proxy?) is quite a bit faster than the 480.

[DanceswithUnix]

fair enuf, I still can't work out why having 2 Nvidia graphics cards is a bad idea and having 2 ati cards is a good idea.

I think having two cards is great whether Nvidia or ATI, but only if bought at the same time. My history is:

I bought a VooDoo 2 card expecting to buy another at a later date and SLI it.
I bought a 6600GT expecting to SLI at a later date.
Was starting to get the message when I bought the 7900GT.

I am the sort of person who would consider an SLI rig to be a fun toy to play with and hence a good target market, but when the time comes to look at video options, purchasing that extra card to upgrade to SLI has either been impossible or pointless and I have gone another route.

Oddly my current motherboard is X-fire capable, not much use with a single Nvidia card

[scaryjim]

... if the new PC plays crysis in 1920x1080 with full detail I'm gonna be happy.

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=24263&page=7

You need crossfire 5870s or SLI GTX470s to hit 40fps @ 1920x1200 - and that's in Crysis Warhead which I believe is slightly better optimised for performance. The difference between the GTX480 and HD5970 / xfire 5850s is pretty significant too - around 20% faster on the ATI hardware. In fact, a single HD5870 narrowly beats out a GTX480 in that test...

[jjgreenwood]

now in stock at scan if you are quick

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1536M...2xDVImini-HDMI

[scaryjim]

I'm more than happy with my 8800GTX thanks

[watercooled]

Is this series the first to use heatpipes on the stock cooler? No others spring to mind.