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Thread: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

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    Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    HEXUS' own Linux expert, Jo Shields, takes a look at the options for running Linux on the PS3 and explores the pros and cons of the major releases out there.
    Read more.

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    über work Jo - you über geek...

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    Now, if the ps3 had a decent game;-) you wouldn't have to think up a use for it.


    (Am now preparing to be flamed)

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyT View Post
    Now, if the ps3 had a decent game;-) you wouldn't have to think up a use for it.


    (Am now preparing to be flamed)
    You could always fold.....

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorza View Post
    You could always fold.....
    that's what mine is up to right now!

    i'd welcome the opportunity to re-visit the topic again in the future, of course, but i have to admit i was massively disappointed with this experiement

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    It's a shame... Maybe Sony should look at working with the Linux boys to develop a decent distro for the PS3, then they can own the compact family computer market in Japan like Ninty did with the SuperFamiCom (SNES to you and me).

    But HUGE thanks to Jo for this write up, I was expecting a 'Linux is sooo cool' conclusion but this article is all the better for Jo's honesty in his findings.

    Next week he's going to try installing YLD on a '92 Ford Mondeo. Can't wait!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dareos View Post
    "OH OOOOHH oOOHHHHHHHOOHHHHHHH FILL ME WITH YOUR.... eeww not the stuff from the lab"

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorza View Post
    You could always fold.....

    Yep, I forgot about that, and is an excellent use of (spare) computing time.

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    Please forgive the quality of photographs, but it's remarkably difficult to capture a decent picture of white-on-black from my HDTV!
    i didnt dare check the next page from work
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephesians
    Do not be drunk with wine, which will ruin you, but be filled with the Spirit
    Vodka

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    (Regarding YDL)

    "YDL is also the first PS3 distribution"

    Wrong, i ran fedora core the day ps3 came out

    "There's also no choice of alternative media players (such as the generally reliable VLC),"

    Wrong, I specifically run VLC on mine. Type something along the lines of "yum install VLC" at the prompt

    "And, strangely, the option to switch to the PS3's "Game OS" doesn't work properly either"

    Wrong, type boot-game-os, it works

    "Blu-Ray (UDF 2.50): No"

    Wrong, i've used bluray in YDL. Specifically when some retarded website tried claiming Resistance had 17 gigabytes of pad files, I mounted the game and took a screenshot proving otherwise.

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    shame it cant access the graphics chipset or both wifi and wired networking, anyone know if there is a way to bypass this?

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    that's what mine is up to right now!

    i'd welcome the opportunity to re-visit the topic again in the future, of course, but i have to admit i was massively disappointed with this experiement
    Yeah, when I get a PS3 I'll be using it a lot to fold. My pc can't hack through the WUs fast enough for my liking.

    I haven't read the whole article yet, but I'd imagine that there could be a great potential for a PS3/Linux combo; if you could get everything working together.

    Incidentally have you checked out the Gentoo PS3 project? - I have no idea how good or bad it is, its just a heads up in case you haven't come across it. Though I suspect you probably have.

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoTechni View Post
    (Regarding YDL)

    "YDL is also the first PS3 distribution"

    Wrong, i ran fedora core the day ps3 came out

    "There's also no choice of alternative media players (such as the generally reliable VLC),"

    Wrong, I specifically run VLC on mine. Type something along the lines of "yum install VLC" at the prompt

    "And, strangely, the option to switch to the PS3's "Game OS" doesn't work properly either"

    Wrong, type boot-game-os, it works

    "Blu-Ray (UDF 2.50): No"

    Wrong, i've used bluray in YDL. Specifically when some retarded website tried claiming Resistance had 17 gigabytes of pad files, I mounted the game and took a screenshot proving otherwise.
    What an idiot.

    this is your first post and hopefully your last.

    If you read the article, it's explained why Fedora is discounted, which makes most of your "wrong" comments, "wrong"
    Last edited by ikonia; 26-11-2007 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Removed potentially offensive word to replace with equally as harsh and meant word without cause for offense. No other change
    It is Inevitable.....


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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoTechni View Post
    (Regarding YDL)

    "YDL is also the first PS3 distribution"

    Wrong, i ran fedora core the day ps3 came out
    Wrong.
    Yellow Dog Linux on the PlayStation 3: Page 1

    Yellowdog worked with Sony. They had a machine before general release, which supersedes your "I ran Fedora".


    Quote Originally Posted by NeoTechni View Post
    "There's also no choice of alternative media players (such as the generally reliable VLC),"

    Wrong, I specifically run VLC on mine.
    Wrong. Read the context of the article.
    It was listed under a specific distribution. Not only that, It is commenting on the default install, like home users would have.

    there are some major black marks against a "standard" YDL system for a desktop

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoTechni View Post
    "And, strangely, the option to switch to the PS3's "Game OS" doesn't work properly either"

    Wrong, type boot-game-os, it works
    Wrong. Again - read the context. The option didn't work properly in that distribution, when he tried it. Stop comparing it to your distribution.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoTechni View Post
    "Blu-Ray (UDF 2.50): No"

    Wrong, i've used bluray in YDL. Specifically when some retarded website tried claiming Resistance had 17 gigabytes of pad files, I mounted the game and took a screenshot proving otherwise.
    Was this on a default install? What version of distribution?
    There are many reasons why it may be a different experience for you two. Why not give some details to try and find out why there was a difference, as opposed to coming across as pompous?

    Hint: Try being more polite on the forums. It goes a long way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    What annoys the hell out of me is that they used the hypervisor to block access to the RSX and its taken 32MB RAM. (as we all know, the PS3 isn't filled with an abundant supply of RAM...Why not increase to 1GB in the next revision? Better yet, why not have an upgradeable RAM slot? Like in notebooks. Actually, have two slots with one occupied with 256MB as default. Market this as PS3 "Enthusiast's Edition" which allows people to upgrade the RAM.)

    Do note though, Noveau, the opensource Nvidia 3D driver project, has a person working on trying to make use of the RSX. They've only started in the last few weeks, so expect to wait quite a while. (a few years at least for something workable). At least we know someone is looking into it.

    The only good thing for the experienced (more like scientific/engineering) Linux user on the PS3, is being able to learn to write apps for the Cell processor. Fortunately, IBM's DeveloperWorks website has provided info on how to do that. Getting a couple of 40GB versions of the PS3 and turning it into a cluster for scientific apps. (Sadly, the type of thing you can do is restricted by the limited amount of RAM).

    As for NeoTechni.
    Dude, get off your arrogant high horse. (Your attitude reflects very poorly to the rest of us Linux users). Yellow Dog was the first official Linux distro for the PS3. Kernel support for the Cell was add much earlier as IBM folks threw their contribution in. That's why you see other distros eventually get involved, but support for the PS3's features is limited compared to Yellow Dog. (As they worked with Sony).

    Thanks to both Sony and Nvidia trying to protect their "intellectual property", Linux users are serverely restricted into what they can do.

    Its analogus to dating the hottest girl in the country (whatever country you're in)...Only to find that her parents have enforced some strict conditions. (Chastity belt, have her home by 7pm, no touching or kissing inappropriately below the neck, only allowed to take her to a list of places approved by her parents, A GPS monitor is hooked up to her so her parents know where she is, you must be following a religion approved by her parents, etc).

    Pretty soon, you'll:
    (1) End up developing a new form of prolong patience and understanding.
    OR
    (2) You won't bother anymore and go with another girl.

    Either way, the girl's opportunity to meet a wide variety of the opposite sex is greatly reduced. This all sounds crazy, but its no different with what Sony is doing with the PS3.

    If Sony wants to sell to the Linux crowd, they have to be more open. (At least provide the necessary specs, under Non-Disclosure Agreement if necessary, so that we can write our own open drivers)...Yes, they probably need to get a bunch of lawyers to comb through the specs to ensure there's no Intellectual Property infringements of a third-party. (In today's world, companies don't make everything on their own, they license various bits from others, to save money and time).

    Regardless, this issue with Linux supporting hardware is no different to Linux on a regular PC. If the hardware manufacturer doesn't support Linux, there's only three choices:

    (1) Reverse-engineer and build your own. (VERY timing consuming, but its a good way to tell the manufacturer that you don't like their limitations.)

    OR

    (2) Try to talk to them about Linux support. (get them to understand the opensource model and how it benefits everyone involved...Win-Win situation). Businesses need to understand as to why they should invest in supporting. ie: What do they get out of it?

    OR

    (3) Live without the feature. ("Tough crap" scenario...Unfortunately, people unfamiliar with Linux will blame Linux instead of the hardware makers for the lack of support).

    Its up to Sony.

    Personally, if I had the hacking talent and the money, I would buy a few PS3s (various variants) and just utterly tear the SOB apart, documenting and experiment everything, just to see what makes this expensive console tick. Host the info in a country that doesn't recognize patents or other legal infringements. Then start writing some open drivers. (will probably need legal advice from the EFF with the driver code if we're ever gonna see it get into Linux.)

    This way, Jo Shields (author) wouldn't have such a negative article with Linux on the PS3.

    At the moment, Linux on PS3 feels like this. =>

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    The way I see it, trying to run linux on a PS3 is just a waste of time, because you are not running it on the hardware, just in a crippled sandbox with a limited set of features provided by Sony.

    The whole point of running Linux on non PC hardware is to improve it and to add features that the original makers did not include. Linux on adsl routers or wireless access points adds things like DNS, DHCP or mail servers. Linux on a 1st gen X-Box adds a media player, and the ability to store games on the hard drive so you can transport it and your games compactly. If you are a coder, Linux on PC hardware adds a huge range of features not available in windows.

    By comparison Linux on a PS3 does not improve it. The hypervisor you are forced to run in on the PS3 prevents you from doing anything useful. You can't run PS3 games, you can't even run your own homebrew games because access to the graphics hardware is so strictly limited.

    In my view, unless a way can be found to break out of the crippled sandbox, perhaps via a bug in it, or a modchip, and run Linux on the bare hardware, there is nothing to be gained, and nothing useful can be done.

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    Re: Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

    I appreciate the support that some people have given me on this, but I think it's definitely worth answering questions raised about my work. If I were unable to defend it, I'd have no right to write it.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoTechni View Post
    (Regarding YDL)

    "YDL is also the first PS3 distribution"

    Wrong, i ran fedora core the day ps3 came out
    No you didn't. The PS3 didn't publicly support booting Linux until firmware 1.10 was released - Terrasoft had collaborated with Sony before this update was released, to have YDL 5 as the first "PS3 distro". No other distro worked behind the scenes with Sony - so as the only distro running before it was possible for the consumer to do so, YDL comes first. Terrasoft are also the ones who collaborated with IBM and Mercury for their distro on professional Cell gear, such as the IBM QS20

    "There's also no choice of alternative media players (such as the generally reliable VLC),"

    Wrong, I specifically run VLC on mine. Type something along the lines of "yum install VLC" at the prompt
    What's reasonable to expect an end-user to do? It's not in the (enormous) base install, there's no PPC Linux download on the Videolan site, rpmfind and rpm.pbone.net drew a blank. The disjointed behaviour of RPM repositories is one of my major annoyances of RPM-based distributions, and without a feasible home-user-friendly package manager (yum isn't user friendly, neither is rug or dselect), how are people meant to install this? The package you want is "videolan-client" by the way, and I'm not even sure about where to get it, as the only site I found making mention of it was advocating mixing YDL sources with several other distros, something I would never suggest or justify for an end-user.

    "And, strangely, the option to switch to the PS3's "Game OS" doesn't work properly either"

    Wrong, type boot-game-os, it works
    Not for me. The option in the E17 menu simply didn't do anything. Switching via "boot-game-os" in KBOOT did.

    "Blu-Ray (UDF 2.50): No"

    Wrong, i've used bluray in YDL. Specifically when some retarded website tried claiming Resistance had 17 gigabytes of pad files, I mounted the game and took a screenshot proving otherwise.
    "mount -t udf /dev/sda1 /tmp/mounty" gave an error. Or something along those lines, anyway. It didn't automount, it didn't manually mount. And don't seriously suggest installing third-party kernel modules for something that's meant to be for home users.
    Last edited by directhex; 01-11-2007 at 12:21 AM.

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