Running Linux on the PS3 - A detailed view of what's out there

[directhex]

In my view, unless a way can be found to break out of the crippled sandbox, perhaps via a bug in it, or a modchip, and run Linux on the bare hardware, there is nothing to be gained, and nothing useful can be done.

I don't know - even within the constraints, it could be useful. It's still good enough for surfing the web (within the limitations of Gnash for Flash, and IBM Java), word processing, and the like. You could use it for SD media on most distributions, and there's even been work in MythTV SVN to add Cell-based acceleration of video decoding (to offload features normally done on a real Vx-based graphics chip/driver)

I don't know exactly what I was expecting, really, but I think I was expecting whatever it was to be *coherent* - feature complete, if limited by the presented architecture (real issues like PPC or imagined issues like the lack of GPU)

[NeoTechni]

What a dick.

this is your first post and hopefully your last.

If you read the article, it's explained why Fedora is discounted, which makes most of your "wrong" comments, "wrong"

I don't see how calling someone wrong and explaining why makes me one. Or do you not like when someone points out someone's mistakes.

You were quite the dick with your first 2 lines. And Fedora was only ONE of my corrections. Not most. Which makes your "which makes most of your "wrong" comments, "wrong"", wrong.

Wrong. Again - read the context. The option didn't work properly in that distribution, when he tried it. Stop comparing it to your distribution.

My distribution was Yellow Dog Linux.

Why not give some details to try and find out why there was a difference, as opposed to coming across as pompous?

I was not pompous, and thought I made it clear I was running YDL. The version I installed was the first they released.

Dude, get off your arrogant high horse.

Speak for yourself, geesus christ I was just pointing out mistakes he made.

but support for the PS3's features is limited compared to Yellow Dog

The Fedora Core version I installed supported everything YDL did.

Your attitude reflects very poorly to the rest of us Linux users

No. Specifically your attitude, Agent's and ikonia's attitude reflects poorly on Linux users.
I was merely making corrections, where you guys became irate and insulting.
Where I made Linux users look like nit pickers, you guys made them look like overly-defensive jerks.
This could've been a perfectly fine conversation if YOU guys would've behaved in a civilized manner.

[Nick]

Neo, calm down please.

In fact, EVERYONE, calm down.

Now, much as berate Linux at every chance I get, purely because Linux guys get all arsey the second I start dissing them, I thoroughly enjoyed Jo's article and thought that his conclusions, knowing Jo as Linux guru and fan, were all the more convincing because he likes the OS so much.

I think that Jo's conclusions are entirely correct, Linux in any form on the PS3 isn't worth it unless you're willing to spend hours configuring the damn thing or finding plug-ins to get bits and bobs working, something your average end user just isn't going to be prepared to do.

Now Neo, you've challenged a fair bit of the fact in Jo's article but have yet to reply to his defence of those facts, despite posting since Jo replied. Could you let us all have your take on what Jo has said?

If you want discussion on the article, now's your chance.

[NeoTechni]

Neo, calm down please.

I do not appreciate being singled out.
I was the calm one. I specifically avoided being as insulting/rude as the others had been.

No you didn't. The PS3 didn't publicly support booting Linux until firmware 1.10 was released

No, the PS3 shipped with the install otherOS feature enabled, the bootloader actually was posted before PS3 came out.
I installed Fedora Core the day PS3 launched, even considered selling it that day as having Linux installed.

What's reasonable to expect an end-user to do?

In Linux yes. And you said there was NO choice. There is a choice. Obviously there has to be if I excersized that choice ot install it,

Wrong, type boot-game-os, it works

Not for me. The option in the E17 menu simply didn't do anything. Switching via "boot-game-os" in KBOOT did.

I said type it in the prompt.

I don't know - even within the constraints, it could be useful. It's still good enough for surfing the web (within the limitations of Gnash for Flash, and IBM Java), word processing, and the like. You could use it for SD media on most distributions, and there's even been work in MythTV SVN to add Cell-based acceleration of video decoding (to offload features normally done on a real Vx-based graphics chip/driver)

I agree. I use it a development station. Even made a PSP game using linux on PS3. Makes a great media center with VLC installed.

[Agent]

My distribution was Yellow Dog Linux

And?
You're failing to grasp the article here. The author has explained the steps he has taken to get VLC running. Just because you have, doesn't mean that the majority of home users will be able to.
Its not an article titled "What does NeoTechni have running on his PS3", but rather the experiences that home users are likely to get if trying to install it.

Specifically your attitude, Agent's and ikonia's attitude reflects poorly on Linux users.

I hope not. Because I'm not a Linux user. It would be a shame to have the hard working Linux community tainted with people like me, I'm sure.

I was merely making corrections, where you guys became irate and insulting.

Perhaps you should go and read over your first post, then look at the replies.
You got an abrupt response because your opening post came across as very rude. Simply quoting the article, stating "Wrong", then taking the article out of context by comparing it to your distribution (without any details at all) was silly.

Where I made Linux users look like nit pickers, you guys made them look like overly-defensive jerks.
This could've been a perfectly fine conversation if YOU guys would've behaved in a civilized manner.

It could have been a perfectly fine conversation if YOU had bothered to explain your points and not come across as rude (which regardless of how much you say you wasn't, everyone else seems to think otherwise).
Look at stmok's post and compare it to yours - there is a heck of a difference.

[directhex]

No, the PS3 shipped with the install otherOS feature enabled, the bootloader actually was posted before PS3 came out.
I installed Fedora Core the day PS3 launched, even considered selling it that day as having Linux installed.

launch-day (and by that i mean the first launch globally, not wherever you're based) machines came with firmware 1.00 out of the box, which lacks the ability to boot other OSes. it was rectified quickly for other global launches, but first-day machines lacked the feature.

In Linux yes. And you said there was NO choice. There is a choice. Obviously there has to be if I excersized that choice ot install it,

obviously with sufficient tinkering you can run anything on anything. that's not to say it's something an end-user would or should be expected to know unless they're seeking a hobby or career in the OS. it's been a year now, ps3 linux should have seen sufficient love to be usable by anyone without a computer science degree

for linux to ever break out of its current niches, it needs to offer an experience as easy or easier than the competition. look at the asus eeepc for example - do you think it would be getting the universal acclaim it's getting if it ran at the wrong resolution, the wi-fi didn't work, and the only way to run anything on it was with gcc? as quoted from page 1 of my text, "we're going to take a look at a selection of specially tailored GNU/Linux distributions for PS3, looking at ease of installation and use - at the very least as a word processing and web browsing machine, if not more". i can easily see someone like my mother able to install a modern distro on an x86 or x86-64 machine, where everything is autodetected and clicky and easy out of the box, but on a ps3? not happening

I said type it in the prompt.

so you agree that the menu option in e17 is broken and worthless? and what the hell is with breaking the logout procedure - did nobody actually test it before release?

I agree. I use it a development station. Even made a PSP game using linux on PS3. Makes a great media center with VLC installed.

it's a frustrating prospect for media use, since there's no way in hell it'll play HD media properly without more access to the hardware (at least Xv-type color conversion and so on). i'd buy a second machine for the bedroom right now just as a mythfrontend if the experience were worthwhile, but right now, in my opinion, it's not except for the most dedicated of user.

there are also a number of other issues i didn't feel were worth mentioning within the scope of the article, but were definitely present - for example, no distribution supports the ps3 remote control (damaging its usefulness as a media machine)

i don't use ideologically sound software, i use the best software for my needs. it just so happens that most of the time (but not in this case) the two are the same.

[Nick]

I do not appreciate being singled out.
I was the calm one. I specifically avoided being as insulting/rude as the others had been.

Hehe, well it should make you feel special!

Anyhoo, I think the main thrust of your argument is that Jo has approached Linux on the PS3 in, in your view, a less than 'expert' manner.

I think Jo has quite clearly shown that his breadth and depth of knowledge on the subject makes him something of an expert, able to navigate the murky waters of PS3 distros where, as Jo's article has quite clearly shown, those of lesser knowledge would just get lost and then give up.

It's all very well arguing about distro launch dates (even though Jo did make it clear why he said what he said), or functions that work if you type in some command at a certain point or install some extra bit of software from somewhere else (all of which sounds like some RPGs I know)... but all of that is too much faffing for the standard user.

I'm sure you're a programming god who can install bleem on a blender but the average PS3 owner who might be interested in running something else on their console is not and as such, the distros that are out there at the time of writing just aren't up to the job.

Come on, it really ain't that hard to see that's what Jo was getting at? Or did you assume that this was 'just another Windows rules, Linux sucks' article, this time without even having Windows in the testing suite?

[directhex]

Come on, it really ain't that hard to see that's what Jo was getting at? Or did you assume that this was 'just another Windows rules, Linux sucks' article, this time without even having Windows in the testing suite?

i can state for the record that ps3 linux is much more useful than ps3 windows xp!

[LdudeAreno]

Very handy to have i guess. I installed it in the hope that i could get VLC to run HD rips. Alas, it's not capable of doing it. Lot of hassle installing software if you don't know what you're doing though.

[Nick]

i can state for the record that ps3 linux is much more useful than ps3 windows xp!

I think it's incredibly remiss of you to not have mentioned that in the review!

[sawyen]

Hey Neo buddy..

I think you've completely missed the point there..

This article is about the viability of Linux as a comfortable OS for home users, i.e. your grandma, parents and that singled out sister which the most complex computation she does is texting her friends on the mobile on gossips.. ok.. and facebook..

If you think about it, surely things will turn around for you as you have to knowledge to tinker with the OS to get eveything working for you. For GOOD REASON.. because its basically the bloody same OS platform..

But will you grandma be able to get everything working? Your parents? or better still.. new PC user (regardless of age) who can't even comprehend the logic behind a simple command prompt?

Even WHEN you get everything working up for them, there are still plenty of other areas where the command prompt will still be needed to access certain functions, and that is somewhere computer illiterates can't go further..

And about your attitude there.. being calm and expressing them are completely different story. You mentioned that you're calm? good.. I am calm too.. but the way you're giving ideas and comments isn't worded towards those context of being sensibly calm.. Honestly, until the point where you said you're actualluy calm... I really thought you're stuck up hard (sorry no pun intended)

I know I know.. you'll probably say you can't please the world.. and you don't have to explain how you live and talk to people like me. But if you're asking why we're reacting in such audacious manner to your comments.. have a read back and think again..

[Agent]

I've been wondering Jo - What do you think of the PS3 as a stand alone server? (ie. CLI only, no sound / xwindows (or whatever you call it these days)) and running Folding (I assume the client is CLI?)
With the 60gig being dropped, I'm thinking of getting one before they all vanish. There is a huge number of PS2 games I've not played and really should.
Zero PS3 games interest me at the moment, but a stand alone home server (FTP, LAMP, Samba) with a small size footprint, decent power consumption, PS2 capable and folding has got me thinking.....

[Nick F]

Chaps this link psubuntu.com | Ubuntu on a Playstation 3 might help some people in this thread, it's the Unbuntu PS3 community site and there is some pretty handy information on there. When I get a PS3 I think I'll be installing Ubuntu and not Yellow Dog.

[directhex]

I've been wondering Jo - What do you think of the PS3 as a stand alone server? (ie. CLI only, no sound / xwindows (or whatever you call it these days)) and running Folding (I assume the client is CLI?)
With the 60gig being dropped, I'm thinking of getting one before they all vanish. There is a huge number of PS2 games I've not played and really should.
Zero PS3 games interest me at the moment, but a stand alone home server (FTP, LAMP, Samba) with a small size footprint, decent power consumption, PS2 capable and folding has got me thinking.....

you can't fold on it under linux, as linux fah only supports i386 (fah5) or x86-64 (fah6)

as for a server... maybe. depends on what you want to serve, really. you could whack a 1tib drive into it and use it as a raid-free file server, maybe, or even a mythtv server using usb tuners. i suppose i like a little convergence in my servers (see my mythtv article) which the ps3 isn't geared towards

[Agent]

Oh sugar. I assumed the client was a Linux based one and not directly tied into the console itself. Thats put a dampener on things.
Was only considering it as a file server, the added PS2 ability is whats tempting me. The list of games I want to play is huge.
I assume now that its either the client running or the OS, not both?

[directhex]

Oh sugar. I assumed the client was a Linux based one and not directly tied into the console itself. Thats put a dampener on things.
Was only considering it as a file server, the added PS2 ability is whats tempting me. The list of games I want to play is huge.
I assume now that its either the client running or the OS, not both?

'fraid so

f@h is selected from the game OS