+ the JavaScript engine which seems to be as porous as a sponge to vulnerabilities.Originally Posted by TheAnimus
If it gave me back several weeks of my life I've wasted fixing peoples PC where they have visited the wrong website on IE - I'd say thats a small price to pay.
Anyway I doubt it matters as I can't believe the IE engine will be gone anyway - I bet its just the iexplore.exe that missing.
Hello,
Have you tryed alternitives?
Apple should definatly have to do the same!
its not hard to download IE or media player is it?
Are users really that stupid? if need be dell or whatever oem you use can put a text file on the desktop saying read this to go online.
all it needs to say is insert the disc labelled "browsers"
how hard is that?
the reason so many people use IE is because its already there. thats why so many web devolopers are lazy and only make website compatible with IE. not all users know they have choose with browser they think the blue E is "the internet"
Media player isnt to bad but with the bultin dvd decoder that of course you pay for when you buy windows doesnt play all of my dvd's.
I want an OS that doesnt have many applications preinstalled. windows media player should be part of windows live applications and not preinstalled. the applications can be on the windows dvd or via windows live suite.
to me windows is a blank canvas. it has the fondations that is needed for an OS but past that all the applications that come with the OS should be uninstallable and not leave any mess behind.
it has the codecs that are needed to play media which means i can choose which ever media player i want to.
I do think apple is worse thou.
Last edited by lodore; 12-06-2009 at 05:18 PM.
Except, if your OS comes with no internet browser as default, how do you get online to get a browser?
I would rather have an OS that i install and works out of the box and can be customised down the road, If i install an OS, i expect to be able to get online and listen to music with is straight away. If i want to use a different player than default, i'll go get one, but frankly the majority of the time most users want to just install and go, not install and then spend a few days configuring and customising and getting things set up. Ease of use is key, and the E and N versions of windows are not ease of use.
you do realise firefox is considered atm as industry standart and everything has to comply to firefox? not IE?
and so let me get this straght if im going to buy windows 7 when it comes out i have a choice..
E i loose the internet explorer
N i loose the windows media player
<Edit by Saracen - Watch your language. Asterisks or not, that is NOT acceptable>
BTW heres a idea, can we go on amazon.com and get the american copy from america?
our boiler broke so we has no heating or hot water, this is the bloody result ^^
From experience a US version of Windows will work here, how licencing will be effected i'm not sure
Hello,
Well in your case download to usb from current computer.
new computers should come with a disc with some browsers on it.
I want people to acually choose programs and not just be zombies buy windows and use applications from microsoft.
Atm i have a dualboot of vista and linux. problem is that not everything works on linux yet so im forced to use windows.
you dont really have much choose with os's. if your fed up of windows and have the cash you will probaly buy a mac.
linux is still concidered geeky.
sure you can customize windows but at the end of the day its still windows and you can tell. thousands of hardware chooses ye only 2 or 3 software chooses.
in a nissan car not everything is made by nissan. for example the sat nav could be made by tomtom and the cd player made by panasonic. yet with operating systems on the whole everything is made by the same company.
linux brings back choice. you have a stable foundation and above that you choose what you use.
Last edited by lodore; 12-06-2009 at 05:53 PM.
If my Grandma bought a new Windows 7 PC, turned it on, and was confronted with, 'Pick one of these fantasic browsers!'..."In terms of potential remedies, if the Commission were to find that Microsoft had committed an abuse, the Commission has suggested that consumers should be offered a choice of browser not that Windows should be supplied without a browser at all," said the Commission in a statement responding to Microsoft's announcement.
Her face =
Stupid, stupid idea.
if she hadn't used a pc before she would beIf my Grandma bought a new Windows 7 PC, turned it on, and was confronted with, 'Pick one of these fantasic browsers!'...
Her face =
Stupid, stupid idea.anyway, and would read the text on the page which would explain it to her. if she had she would be capable of clicking the one she used previously / you told her to pick, non issue
Vodka
She's used a PC to the extent of emailing, basic surfing etc. but that's besides the point.
What I'm getting at is if the average user found themselves looking at a list of browsers to choose, each (I assume) with a little paragraph trying to explain why they're better than the other options, they'd be a tad confused.
Sure, the large majority would just click IE because that's what they're used to, but then doesn't that make the whole 'choice' process pretty pointless?
If a user is capable enough to understand the benefits of alternative browsers, I'm pretty certain they're capable enough to download and install one. I think a better idea would be forcing MS to include a proper IE uninstaller...
Everything Saracen said on the first page. +1
The solution that the EU wants is to have a choice when you set up your OEM system/W7 install to pick from a selection of browsers, obviously MS isn't going to want to package other company's software on their discs, and I'd agree with them that it's asking a bit much to require them to do so.
So In-store discs and what have you will return! Like the ol' Freeserve discs you'd pickup from PC world for that blazin' 33.3kpbs connection
However, I'd love to be able to add/remove (specifically REMOVE) a lot of the stuff that comes piled on in windows. IE, and all those damn minesweeper/solitaire games too.
OK as mentioned in these many pages, its stupid and MS have done the right thing and complied with the EU in the way THEY see fit and it still gets to the point. If the makers of other browsers want to be on an OS then make your own OS then isnt it? How can you expect some company that makes the OS and a good browser to say, NO! Our browser is crap heres the better ones....
If they want to be available for install then they should all pay a fee to have their browser put on an install list for all the browsers(for those that paid). EU is taking it to far and i hope we get out of this ****ty system soon.
i think they would be fine, and even if they do just plump for IE at least they have had the option
maybe browsers just dont matter that much to normal people, i mean, its us talking about it - not them
Vodka
I'm not Nightshadow's grandma but I probably could be
I'm not going to panic - yet - but I was relying on Windows 7 to rescue me from Vista... desperately hoping for an upgrade I could afford. That's why I've stuck with Vista and not installed XP on my new lappy, I understood there would be an upgrade pathway from Vista but not from XP.
Maybe Windows 7 will be available on HP? (I mean Hire Purchase, of course, not Hewlett Packard.)
By the way, to whoever thinks they'll have to buy 7E: without IE, or 7N: without Media Player - I read it as 7N will be without IE and Media Player.
scyllabub
It's a shame really, as IE runs with lower-than-user privileges these days (ieuser.exe) for security - one of the reasons there is such a tight integration between the browser as the OS.
If IE doesn't ship in Windows 7 'E' then I would imagine it would be an optional component visible through Windows Update - that component is independent from IE as of Vista (only IE proxy settings are used if they are defined, I believe).
As for upgrades from Windows Vista (with IE) to Windows 7 'E' (from a technial, not licensing perspective) I guess the technical difficulties of ensuring the system and all installed apps work would be too great - there will be apps that depend on IE binaries, registry settings, APIs, profiles, etc. and will simply fail if it's not there.
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Yes. I've tried Firefox, never liked it. Chrome on the other hand is great.
Certainly not for me, or any other person who has a little computer knowledge. But most people (average joe) won't have a clue what to do when presented with a list of browsers.
Yes, users are really that stupid. I'm out round friends and family fixing their PCs most of the time.
But why should Microsoft have to included another disc with browsers on? It's a moronic move by the EU.
Most people use IE because they are comfortable with it. I've used a mix of IE8 and Chrome.
WMP is great for music. But I use CCCP for movies and anything else.
Again, why should it be on a seperate disc? Just because it's pre-installed doesn't mean you have to use it. You are free to download WinAMP or whatever and use that.
Paul makes a brilliant point. IE8 + Windows 7 + UAC + Standard User = great security protection. Could the same be said if IE was taken out of the equation. Bearing in mind, most malware infections come from browser and user stupidity
Removing IE is pointless at this stage, although I do think a option to show a list of browsers and allow the user to chose is a good idea. This approach is actually taken with IE and setting the search engine.
I do think the EU should be aiming their sights at other issues though. In the scheme of things, I don't think it's that important now and much more important matters in the computer industry should be tackled.
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