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About LinkBacksOhhhhhh yes indeedy!!!!!!!Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH
That's why I'm so happy about it. Maybe not every ship so soon, but yes you will be able to buy everything, from ships to weapons, to posters, all in-game.
Ohhhhhh yes indeedy!!!!!!!
That's why I'm so happy about it. Maybe not every ship so soon, but yes you will be able to buy everything, from ships to weapons, to posters, all in-game.
I assume with in-game resources,right??Ohhhhhh yes indeedy!!!!!!!
That's why I'm so happy about it. Maybe not every ship so soon, but yes you will be able to buy everything, from ships to weapons, to posters, all in-game.
The only problem I have though is even in that case,the people who spend loads of real money on the game buying the best gear will have a massive leg up over those who don't,especially those who have no time to be playing a 1000 hours of the game.
How are resources managed in the game?? I wouldn't want to be in a position of pay to win players hogging the most important ones very early on,due to their ability to pay money,meaning the only way to do better in reality is spending more money,or spending every waking moment playing it. It only gives the dev more and more incentive to make this about spending more.
This is not a F2P game,so IMHO the devs have sold out.
Nah,EA would promote him I suspect. After all he managed to make people give him silly amounts of money for ship upgrades,before the game is even released.
Looks like EA might start taking notes.
What pisses me of is Star Citizen will make other devs attempt to try doing the same type of business even more and more,even when you have paid £30 to £40 for the game.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 19-11-2013 at 01:49 PM.
Yep, you earn UECs - United Earth Credits.
There is a cap on how much real money you can spend.
But you could have the biggest, most powerful ship around, but if you're not that good a pilot (or even if you are), your ship will have exploitable flaws that could be used by a small ship. No one ship trumps everything else.
You will also have to find and pay extra crew (PC or NPC) in order to fly your big ship, along with maintenance costs, higher insurance, etc.
Plus, you could totally trounce all these big ship players by staying on planet, going into business and ending up controlling the fuel supply company, or something.
There are many facets to this game, including a fully dynamic economy.
That's no different to the drawbacks you'd have even if no money were spent. If someone else can put more time and/or money in than you, then they'll have more stuff or more practice. Nothing can really be done about that.
But you can still increase your own resources easy enough.
You earn (or buy) your credits, you buy your ships and upgrades, you fly your missions, you get your stuff. What you own can be stored in your base hangar, if that's what you mean?
Not really possible, from what I understand.
Anything they can have, you can too. It will take longer to get if you earn it, of course, but you can still get it. It also shouldn't take that long - They reckon you'll be able to go from zero credits and no ship, to having your own starting ship very quickly. It might take a couple of months to afford a full-on large freighter, but it's not unduly difficult.
Sold out to who?
The more money the Devs get now, the more features will be included at game release rather than implemented later on. Plus they will need a LOT of cash to maintain the servers, develop upgrades and so on.
Much of the buy-in is for people to have their input during the Alpha and Beta tests. Folks have just gone crazy buying more just so they can see stuff.
Others will try the same business model, but they will need serious clout. The name Chris Roberts carries that clout, but would EA doing a Mass Effect sequel carry the same?
It depends what happens on launch I think. One of the things that put me off early backing was that you could buy in game credits (essentially, got different amounts for different pledges). I was looking for a single player non-real world economy game. As soon as you add a virtual currency with some kind of real world value then it's a very different kind of game.
But as always, I'll judge the game on what it is when it's released. If no-one did that then there wouldn't be much incentive to make a better game.
Sorry,put I have to agree to disagree with you about the paid upgrades and ships. The money excuse for devs is by people who want to pay to win,ie,crap players. If you are decent player you would not pay to win,but start at the same level as everyone else and let your skill do the talking. The thing is that you already pay for the game upfront anyway.Its not free. Moreover,if the game is so brilliant then charge a yearly fee then. People will pay it if the game is decent and well supported.
Otherwise its like the bastard child of a F2P and fully paid game.
If you want to support the game via crowdfunding do it because you want it to succeed,not so you can cheat by paying to win. Heck,even giving backers shares in the company is a better way of doing it.
This is no different than what EA does or wants to do with them trying to make more games pay to win,and yet because people are in awe of someone they give Oxide Games a free pass. Its no excuse,as it only means more and more stuff will end up being ripped out of games,or changed to make people "have" to pay for upgrades,which screws up the balance of the game in favour of those who can spend more money. It is just a sell out IMHO,especially when you have to pay upfront for the game anyway. This is not a free game. D3 was a prime example of the whole issue with real money seeping into a paid game.
However,I forget people are quite gullible at times(weak consumers),so TBH they deserve what they get I suppose and I have said what I wanted to say.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 19-11-2013 at 03:22 PM.
This game is a textbook case of great marketing. It doesn't even exist in the hands of players yet, but people are defending how it plays, works, and extrapolating what the results are going to be.
You've not even played it yet. You keep quoting that marketing guys! lol
Butcher (20-11-2013),CAT-THE-FIFTH (19-11-2013)
Blimey... pretty jaded community here, isn't it?
Seems everyone hates every single game Dev because they always 'sell out' and kow-tow to what the publisher/investors want. Here's a game where the funding is staying with the crowd so the Devs don't have to bow down to investor/publisher pressure (because they don't exist), yet they're still doing it wrong??!!
Can't win, can you!
So I'm crap, am I?The money excuse for devs is by people who want to pay to win,ie,crap players.
Thanks for that... I feel really great knowing I've been put in my place so succinctly.
I bought an Aurora and a 300i, the two lowest priced pledges going. Does that mean I'm only *slightly* crap? What if I start my game and purposely have nothing. Does that redeem me?
So do this, then.If you are decent player you would not pay to win,but start at the same level as everyone else and let your skill do the talking.
Don't get the game until it's released, then go and prove your skill by decimating all those crap players who have invested thousands in massive ships and expensive HOTAS rigs.
But how is this any different to joining a game a year after its release, where existing players all have more than you anyway?
People still succeed in that arena, so why not this one?
How is it pay to win, when you can't buy anything exclusive?If you want to support the game via crowdfunding do it because you want it to succeed,not so you can cheat by paying to win.
You don't even *have* to buy ships.
You still can subscribe, buy merchandise or just flat-out donate. RSI just offers 'stuff' for your donations, so people are buying the 'stuff' as well.
Charity shops are built on this very premise.
You could even just wait for release and buy only the game. It's your choice...
From day one, CIG have said that you can buy everything in-game as well. The ONLY actually required purchase is the initial game itself and that's all it will ever actually require.Its no excuse,as it only means more and more stuff will end up being ripped out of games,or changed to make people "have" to pay for upgrades.
So teach them a lesson - Don't buy their game.It is just a sell out IMHO,especially when you have to pay upfront for the game anyway.
I've bought into this to the tune of about £90 depending on the exchange rate and I agree with most of what's been said against it here and yes the marketing has been really well done, actually been nice to watch a company do it properly and realise it takes more the a glossy trailer with a thumping soundtrack.
Their community involvement at all levels has been top notch and I've yet to have an interaction with them where I wasn't treated like a valued paying customer almost forgot what that felt like as a PC gamer. I'd gotten kinda used to being treated like a wallet, a problem or a pirate. It's these things that have made me buy in. I've already had more enjoyment out of that money than the £40 I just gave Egosoft. Despite only having access to a hanger to wander round and oggle my ship, at this point.
Just to clear up one repeated misconception you can't buy the most powerful ships in the game. They're earned. Top right corner(Idris) is a variant of the most powerful and limited edition ship you could buy at any point in the crowdfunding. Centre frame is the most powerful ship you can get in the game so far and absolutely isn't for sale according to CIG. http://i.imgur.com/dcS9c7r.jpg
Puts my mind at ease a bit on the pay to win front, if they were selling the Bengal(the huge one) I'd be of a very different mind, but I think they've got it about right.
From here: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/Featur...cks8221.aspx/4
Atomic: I like it. You’ve got a “no pay to win” listed on your website as one of the features listed for your game. Is this a bit of a dig at free-to-play models, or certain free-to-play models?
Chris: Uh, I’m not necessarily against free-to-play as long as it’s done well. What I don’t like is sort of the zinger-style gameplay that hampers your experience to force you to basically encourage you to pay money. So I think that sucks. So I don’t want that, and on the pay-to-win model, for me, what the pay-to-win model is, there’s only stuff you can buy—that you can only use money for—and that stuff gives you an advantage in battle. The way I think it should always work is, it doesn’t matter if you use money to get it or you use in-game credits that you’ve earned by gameplay, you can buy the same stuff. You definitely can’t do that in a lot of zinger games, you definitely can’t do that in things like The Sims Online. I mean, they bifurcate between real money and in-game money… and I think everything should be in-game money and all real money should do is allow you to get a little bit more in-game money if you just don’t want to spend as much time earning money in the game. But in a design like a Star Citizen which is the same as Freelancer or Privateer, earning money in game, that’s the whole point of the game. That should be fun, right? That shouldn’t be boring, grinding stuff. I mean, you’re doing missions to earn money and running and doing trade runs, or whatever it is; that’s the whole core game mechanic, and that should be fun and not grinding. It’s really just your choice.
I think some people probably won’t have 15-20 hours to put into the game in a week, but they’ll want to get in there and fly a fast new ship, so they want an option to buy some credits. But there certainly won’t be any chance where someone can just spend money to win to basically be someone that hasn’t spent the money. First of all, someone that hasn’t spent the money but has put the time in can have exactly the same equipment. And then even if they haven’t put the time in, a lot of it’s going to depend on skill and flying styles, and the ships themselves have pros and cons. So, just because you spent a lot of money on a ship, doesn’t mean it’s going to be a ship that will beat one that not nearly as much money was spent on. Say, a more expensive bigger ship, yes, you can have more weapons and more armour and more shields and bigger engines and everything, but it’s going to have a bigger mass and a larger amount of inertia and probably won’t be quite as manoeuvrable. So you can have someone with a much lighter build they put together and is a good pilot, and they may be too quick for you to really bring your guns to bear on them. It may take them quite a few hits to knock your shields down but, if they’re a good pilot, they can manage that because you manage to get one shot off on them. So there’s definitely a sort of pro and con to different ships, and rock, paper, scissors, if you like.
Can anybody recommend any good joysticks for this?
Annoyingly, sticks are a bit thin on the ground these days.
This is a good guide for the commonly available ones: https://forums.robertsspaceindustrie...s-and-hotas/p1
Personally, I'm looking at the old Logitech G940 or possibly a CHProducts setup. Look to be about the best bang for buck without breaking the bank.
I have a £45 thrustmaster one I use quite happily in BF4, X etc. and i'm quite happy with. I don't particularly like HOTAS type setups for these kind of games, as invariably you haven't got anywhere near enough buttons on them.
I also think the devs are being incredibly disingenuous about it not being pay to win. It doesn't look like it will be zinga levels of ridiculous, but I'd love to see some comparisons about the rate at which you can earn money based on what you enter the sandbox with (I understand theres a single player story to follow through first?) and the price of even a half decent ship. If it takes 50 hours of grinding to earn enough for half decent ship, let alone factories etc then it really is pay to win even if you could technically earn it. If it was F2P i'd have no problem dropping the price of a game to get set up with a couple of factories and some frieghters, but as it is at the moment it looks a lot like it will need you to buy a game and then drop as much again into stuff before it starts being fun.
That's fine.
I am more a KB&M fan myself, but I'll be looking for something to try.
I've heard bad things about the quality of the X52 and X52 Pro, the RAT one and a couple others.
The older Logitechs are still firm favourites and while I love the look of the Warthog HOTAS, it's fecking expensive!!
I'll see about the G940, but if not then CHProducts's products are reknowned for being the most solid builds on the planet!
Yep, there's a single-player - Squadron 42 - but I understand this is optional. Certainly it is for second characters onward.
It's the same concept as in Starship Troopers - You can get your Citizenship, but you first have to serve (usually in the military). You can choose to remain a civillian, as Rico's dad did in the book, but Citizens are regarded as the higher social class. Those characters who do the singleplayer campaign muster out with a bit more money and possibly rank, title and other stuff (depending on how well/badly you do). The Star Citizen game comes with Squadron 42 included anyway, so you have that choice.
But anyway - There is a cap on purchasable funds. $25 per day, to a maximum of $150 on any single account. In game currency, that equates to: 25,000 UEC or 150,000 UEC per account.
You may be able to earn more than this in-game, though. In fact, you must be able to, else you'd never afford the bigger ships.
Now, the current understanding is that current pledge ship values in dollars will multiply threefold after game launch, with the same thousandfold into in-game UECs, so a basic $25 Aurora now will end up costing $75 real money, or 75,000 UEC in game.
That should be a few evenings of reasonable grind, or possibly less if you're a savvy trader, good pilot or take high-paying missions, pirate something valuable, explore and discover new things, or whatever.
The grind will not be as dull as past games, as this is supposed to be fun. Exactly how comparable is yet to be seen, but I expect it will be as on-par as possible.
How do you win, though?
Pay to win supposedly only refers to something powerful and decisive that you can only get by paying.
But regardless - If I can trounce/evade/snipe or generally beat you in your (purchased) bigger ship with my little cheap (earned) Aurora, who wins there?
Naw, you just pay whatever you feel like and only if you feel like backing early.
If you are unsure at all, wait for launch and just buy the game then. No biggie.
People are dropping money in madness, so they can play everything and start setting up clans, groups, fleets, etc.
Players will make up only around 10% of the ships out there, anyway. Most of those you encounter (friends and foes) will be NPCs.
LOL, same here, saving my nappies for Elite: Dangerous.
As kalniel said, I have reservations about FPS features being in there though, on the face of it, it does seem logical to have it in there.. whether it works or not is another question.
Have you seen the hangar module?
You can switch from TPS to FPS views seamlessly. Both allow you to access the cockpit and you can again switch from 'in cockpit' view to 'outside ship' view just as simply and seamlessly.
Quite how this will feature in terms of shooting stuff, I dunno. The coding difficulties therein are a bit beyond my ken, but it certainly looks viable.
Thanks for the link, I'll have to go through it meticulously. After playing so much Freelancer with a mouse I'd really urge anyone to get a joystick.
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