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Thread: Digital SLR discussion thread...

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    Photographer; for hire!! shiato storm's Avatar
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    Digital SLR discussion thread...

    Right, here's the deal; I have got a bit of money aside meant specifically for a camera. Having already got probably one of the best 35mm film SLRs ever (an Olympus OM-1) I'm now looking to get a good quality dSLR to complement it. It is with this in mind that I have been making various descisions about which makes I look at seriously. It became extremely obvious that two makes came out over everyone else - unsurprisingly - its between canon and nikon. people like sigma, pentax, fuji etc just don't cut it yet.
    I have therefore been digging around, a fair bit, about the various cameras on offer and its between two high selling models; the Nikon D70 and the Canon 20D. Each are very good, and despite the 8megapixels on the 20D the quality is, to the human eye, pretty much the same (ok so you could zoom n massively but on an A4 size picture the difference is hard to spot. In fact I'd go so far as to suggest that its more a case of the photographer than the camera when you hear of problems occuring...! Each camera does a lot, and each is better in different areas - 20D has different focusing methods whilst D70 has a higher speed flash sync. I'm tempted by whats on offer from each and I could afford either 20d or d70 plus a couple of good lenses, that said the d70 is £750 PLUS lens and 20d is £1000 body only! (so for the price of a 20D body I could get a d70+lens kit and another...)
    Of course there is a great deal of competition out there driving prices lower and quality up, and its not un-like the computer buyer's market where products are constantly updating from one month to the next (wasn't that long ago when 60gigabyte HDDs were the biggest you got!) I was about to go out and get one this very week, yup THIS week but I'm not going to now.
    why? you ask...well, this is whats bugging me. It struck me that over time the dSLRs will eventually get more and more pixels, currently at 6 and 8 for a lower end model, it was 3 or 4 not long ago at the very top of the range! so how long till we see the current 16megapixel technology used in the budget line-up?
    I read only today that Nikon are planning a D70 successor already, to be released later this year, there are grumblings that an announcement will be made at the end of the month (february) on it. Nikon have already announced a D2X to be shipped and will be up at the top of their dSLR range.
    Now, the rumour is out that the D70 successor will be an 8megpix. camera to take on canon's 20D - in a sort of tit for tat reply. It is also rumoured that whilst the D70 will quite probably fall in price the new arrival will be up around the price of the 20D. whether the 20D falls as a result (having been on the market for some time already) I have no idea...
    So I'm a bit stumped really. I KNOW there will be new technology around the corner which is always the case with digital. with film its far simpler, my Olympus OM-1 is my dad's and its 30yrs old, it takes fantastic pictures, its not auto-focus but I prefer the skill of manual, 35mm technology hasn't changed much since it became the standard!
    In 30yrs a digital SLR like the D70, or 20D, will be pretty obselete...no? its not hard to imagine this. think back 10 years when windows 95 came out - all the rage but now its been out-done by 98 then xp. but then we could all keep waiting for the 'update' and never get anything just spend out lives waiting and hoping!
    bottom line is should I shut up, spend the damn money and use the freakin' thing NOW, or wait a bit (as per-rumour; until the end of Feb.) and see whats what then and get the next version which could be just around the corner?

    there may be some of you out there that might also be in the same situation as me - a potential buyer - or alternatively that you already own a digital camera (SLR or not), and I'd be interested to read what your views are on this matter
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    I would love a dSLR, but price stops me from buying one.

    I have borrowed a canon 300d for a week and I firmly believe that Digital is the way of the fiuture. The 300d is quite good, but limited features (eg no auto bracketing and no double exposure etc).

    However, I will continue to use film until dSLR's arive at the same or higher quality than film. With my film scanner I can get the equivalent of 15mega pixel Tiffs.

    I am going to wait for 5 yrs before I think about buying a dSLR, by then Nikon D100's will be going for £50 on ebay .

    In the maeantime I will keep the photo developers in business.
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    Tom
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    you know what I'm goin to say.....20D I definitely thing at the moment canon are the way to go, a lot of pro's and serious amatures alike are moving to Canon. Nikon make good stuff yea, but the range of canon lenses etc is just far greater...nikon have either budget or high end, no 'enthusiast' glass if you get my drift Also the 20D's much faster than the D70 in all except flash sync (turn on, burst fire etc), has much less noise @ higher isos, is built better and is frankly a 1DmkII without weather protection, slightly slowed down and less AF points, and makes your lenses that teeny bit longer (1.3 VS 1.6x). The quality of the two are on par as far as results go. Lots of people i know have sold the 1DII to get a 20D or 2.

    the obseletion in 30 years thing, try 5 lol they are very fast catching up computers unfortunately for evolution
    Last edited by Tom; 01-02-2005 at 01:26 AM.

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    Tom
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    Quote Originally Posted by starside
    I would love a dSLR, but price stops me from buying one.

    I have borrowed a canon 300d for a week and I firmly believe that Digital is the way of the fiuture. The 300d is quite good, but limited features (eg no auto bracketing and no double exposure etc).

    However, I will continue to use film until dSLR's arive at the same or higher quality than film. With my film scanner I can get the equivalent of 15mega pixel Tiffs.

    I am going to wait for 5 yrs before I think about buying a dSLR, by then Nikon D100's will be going for £50 on ebay .

    In the maeantime I will keep the photo developers in business.

    That time has long gone where digital bettered 35mm in my opinion 1DSmkII @ 16mp anybody?

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    I bought a D70 18-70DX kit Just before Christmas ( The price had dropped to a slightly more palatable £800 inc and has dropped again to £645 CalumetPhotographic). Having Already borrowed a Canon EOS 300D, the D70 Blew it away in most departments and the decision was pretty easy in the end for me. As for how it fairs against the 20D I don't know. What I can say is that I've taken almost 1800 shot's since I've had the D70, and everything about the camera I Love, from the everlasting battery Life (well, at least 500 shots with above average flash use) to the super quiet, super smooth lens. You can have fully manual for complete control or the convenience of point & shoot Auto and many variations between the two. Probably best of all though as soon as you switch it on you can shoot straight away, you never miss a shot because the camera wasn't ready in time. So what, it's dropped £150 since I've bought it, I'd have paid double that for the use and enjoyment I've had out of it. And just before you ask , no I don't work for Nikon, I'm just a very satisfied Customer.

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    Photographer; for hire!! shiato storm's Avatar
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    he he, how did I know you'd say that Tom I guess its worth noting that many people I read about also swap over to canon - from nikon - because of various things but ultimately its lens quality. In terms of ease of use then perhaps the D70 has it(menu is dead easy to navigate, the 20D has things hidden away!) but for functionality over a big range then its the 20D (high speed settings for sports and low lighting). I'v no idea about the weather-proofing of the two in comparison. As you say there may be significant differnces in the lens range that may be the deciding factor - that nikon only provide the high end and budget end, whereas canon spread themselves across the board.
    I expect Nikon's reply to the 20D will be a bit pricyer - as the D70 was to the 300d - and will sell pretty well simply cause its a nikon if for no other reason. then there comes the technology shift - nikon will have to use differnt bits to achive an attractive camera to fight off the 20d and justify a higher price tag. I bet we'll see another sub-£1000 canon in the 20d in no time.

    one thing that bugs me is the lens that comes with the 20d. the D70 has a pretty decent bit of glass in the 18-70mm dx lens...and the 20d (as a kit) comes with some joke of a lens that also comes with the 300d, which I think is a bit of a cheap trick. Ok so you can get it body only but getting a lens in the package certainly cuts costs quite a bit. And as you should know the camera can be 'ok' but if the lens is rubbish then pictures will be poor, if its a good quality lens - even on a not too top of the line camera - the pictures will still be great...
    so I'm concerned that the initial canon package isn't as good in that respect. perhaps time will tell and as prices drop we'll see a shift. I think I'm going to wait a bit longer before I part with a chunk of cash...


    ...or could just get me a bike! (wait, alraedy have one of those...hmmm...)
    It is possible though to get other lenses like Sigma to fit the nikons and hence bridge the gap that way with no loss in quality noticable.
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    I have no idea about SLRs but i know of a great website

    http://www.dpreview.com/

    Lots of spec info and images to compare the different makes. Hope its of some help.

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    I'm just looking Tifosi's Avatar
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    I'm in the same boat I'm waiting for PMA 2005 which is around Feb 20th.

    I'm expecting to buy the 300D replacement expected to be announced then rumoured 350D or 300XT hopefully with the 18-55mm lens kit. Which should fight off the D70 competition.

    Then I intend to buy the 50mm F1.8 II lens from Jacobs and the 70-300mm DO IS from Thailand and a Lexar 1gb compact flash from Ebuyer and a couple of Skylight filters.

    I'm going for Canon over Nikon because the range of lens' is far greater and I have been very happy with Canon so far. Owning a S30 and S50.

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    I really want to get a dSLR and when bought body only they seem quite a reasonable price. Can normal SLR lenses be used with them? I mean if they fit etc. Would it make a difference to the quality or the pictures? I thought I saw somewhere that there are digital lenses.
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    I eats food da_ging's Avatar
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    maybe this will sway you

    nikon does a canon
    http://www.nikon.co.uk/d70cashback/

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    I'm just looking Tifosi's Avatar
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    The Canon 300d is cheaper to buy with the lens kit rather than body only.

    The Canons are compatible with standard EOS lens for film SLRs denoted by EF (the old FD lenses don't work afaik). There are digital lenses as well denoted EF-S for Canon which have a short back.

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    I'm just looking Tifosi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da_ging
    maybe this will sway you

    nikon does a canon
    http://www.nikon.co.uk/d70cashback/
    *up to* £100 hmmmmm

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    Photographer; for hire!! shiato storm's Avatar
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    cheers atcapollo...thats interesting to note; that there's a greater range available in terms of canon lenses. I agree with the assumptions that nikon supply high-end or low end lenses with not a lot in between but presumably someone like sigma or tamron bridge the gap sufficiently? Ok, so you want canon lenses all the way, yes they do cater across the range but surely sigma/tamrons etc can be bought for both camera makes - and even pentax's too - so I'm not sure that its right saying range for canon cameras is far greater. canon lens range is far greater but perhaps not much in it when you consider other options...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atcapollo
    *up to* £100 hmmmmm
    from what ive read its £100 cashback for the d70 + 18-70 lens kit and £50 cashback for body only

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    Photographer; for hire!! shiato storm's Avatar
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    well, you can use SLR lenses on dSLRs but - depending on the type - certain functions may not be accessable. I doubt this affects things though as they probably work fine mostly - canon/nikon just want you to get another expensive lens!
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    i bet they anounce a new d70 update...
    d80?
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