Digital SLR discussion thread...

[Tifosi]

Yep I'm the kind of guy who would go all Canon kit or all Nikon, I was referring to the manufacturers own lenses. If you consider Sigma, Tamron etc that original statement possibly is no longer true.

Canon only make 3 digital EF-S lenses and technically only 2 of them can be purchased (18-55 is in kit format only). They aren't especially expensive.

[Knoxville]

I've only used the 20D myself outta the 2 but it is a spectacular piece of kit imo, made a mediocre photographer like me look so much better than I actually am

[BUFF]

& just to be different this is what I plan to get


As I already have a fair selection of Minolta AF glass it's a bit of a no brainer but the reviews have been pretty decent too.

[Saracen]

I really want to get a dSLR and when bought body only they seem quite a reasonable price. Can normal SLR lenses be used with them? I mean if they fit etc. Would it make a difference to the quality or the pictures? I thought I saw somewhere that there are digital lenses.

Yes, standard Canon EF lenses can be used with their dSLR's.

I have the 75-300mm IS lens, 20-35mm wideangle and 100mm Macro (among others) and all have been used on a range of Canon dSLR's, for some years now.

What you have to be aware of, though, is that the difference in sensor size and focal length means that a lens designed for 35mm gives a different focal length on a dSLR. The conversion factor is usually about 1.6 (or thereabouts, from model to model).

So my 100mm, for instance, becomes a 160mm on a dSLR, and the 75-300mm becomes a 120-480mm. This can be an advantage, of course, but it does mean that getting decent wide-angle ranges can be to be hard .... and expensive.

There are full-frame dSLR's, but unless you are either a professional, or loaded, you aren't going to like the price.


Andyes, there are digital lenses. Canon have a few, and the main limitation there is they they typcially will NOT work with 35mm bodies, but it is a way of solving the wide-angle issue.

[shiato storm]

quite Buff - if you have the lenses then realy its no contest...as a first time dSLR (starting from scratch) i'm not going for the minolta. it is nice tho.

[Tifosi]

So my 100mm, for instance, becomes a 160mm on a dSLR, and the 75-300mm becomes a 120-480mm.

That's a bit misleading the Canon's have a 1.6 crop, so your 100mm on a DSLR with a 1.6 crop will have the same field of view as a 160mm on a standard 35mm body.

The lens is still a 100mm lens and the image remains the same size at the film plane for a given lens and subject distance – but its takes up a larger proportion of the (smaller) frame hence the confusion of a magnifying effect.

[shiato storm]

...imagine a smaller rectangle inside a regular 35mm frame... its not that it enlarges a 100mm to 160mm but crops it to account for the smaller sensor than 35mm. in effect you lose a bit off the edges but when you get the image up on the computer it 'appears' as though its been enlarged by 1.6 or 1.5x (typically on dSLRs)...

[Oakey]

You know the 20D with kit lens is £998 from Ebuyer right? They're 'grey imports' though and although there's speculation over whether Canon will or won't honour the warranty, Ebuyer will.

[Tifosi]

Okay I couldnt wait any longer.

Went to Jessops asked them to price match the 20D with the 18-55 kit at £1004
They called up HQ, HQ said the lowest they can do is £1065 but the shop didn't have any of the kits in stock!

(I didn't let on that ebuyer is grey - the extra £60 is worth it to have UK warranty and purchase offline!)


They have a 20D with 18-55mm kit on order at £1065, plus a EF 50mm f1.8 mk II on order at £79.99 and the EH-17 case on order at £29.99

Then I'm purchasing a 1gb Lexar Pro 80x CF from Ebuyer for £72.70 free shipping , Jessops only price matched to £76 on that.

It works out to be around £40 more than buying the same kit in the US so I am very happy and is a lot cheaper than UK high street prices.

[Oakey]

You're fooling yourself. Is the extra £60 really worth a UK warranty when Ebuyer will honour the warranty anyway? (and I paid with credit card anyway, they're awesome with dealing with problems ) And why is it better to purchase offline? You still have to wait for Jessops to get yours in stock, Ebuyer delivered mine the day after I ordered it!!

As for about £40 more than buying the same stuff in the US, I think you're figures are wrong. The EF 50mm you're paying £80 for is about £35 in the US (I'm buying all my lenses in NYC in March ) and CF cards are even cheaper!!

[Tifosi]

Well I've RMA'd with Ebuyer once and it wasn't that pleasurable. Plus I don't really fancy paying £20 to send a camera back each time. Plus I don't fancy not seeing my £1000 camera for weeks whilst they "fix" it. If I go to a shop at least I can kick up a fuss if needs be. Plus Ebuyer is now all E-notified and it can be days before they respond. Plus if I want my 20D to be recalibrated by Canon then I can get it done under their warranty.

As for the costs for the body+kit, 50mm and case Jessops came to £1065+£80+£30= £1175

B&H in the USA came to £861.977 for the same kit (I found the body cheaper there)

Okay so a £310ish difference, but still for UK warranty and convenience I'm happy with that. Plus surely importing from US would see customs and excise raise an eyebrow.

Of course I'll be purchasing my zoom lens abroad as for CF I'm happy with £72 for 1gb.

I'm not due in the US for sometime so I can't wait

[shiato storm]

you'r better getting it froma shop - Tom had four before he got one he was satisfied with...finally got one at jessops...
now, I'm not sure thats such a good advert for Canon at all...could be that canon have updated this problem in more recent releases but how can we be sure?

Also, My thoughts about getting something abroad - assuming you don't care much that there's no warrenty cover etc. - how is customs going to distinguish you and a camera coming back from holiday with one you got over there? as far as I can see it there's not much chance. you could get it, take a few snaps and then really they'd never know...

[Oakey]

You don't pay and tax or duty on digital cameras anyway

[Tifosi]

you'r better getting it froma shop - Tom had four before he got one he was satisfied with...finally got one at jessops...

What was his problem?

I thought you do get taxed on cameras enough people have complained about being lumped with customs&excise bills from 7dayshop.com YMMV

As for distinguishing the camera, send the receipts back in the post don't carry them with you and not the 300D is the Digital Rebel in the USA and Kiss in Japan... slight differentiation.

[BUFF]

You don't pay and tax or duty on digital cameras anyway

You do pay VAT @17.5%

& Canon do appear to have had a lot of quality problems with the 20D (dust on the sensors etc.)

[rajagra]

However, I will continue to use film until dSLR's arive at the same or higher quality than film. With my film scanner I can get the equivalent of 15mega pixel Tiffs.

Well, I could boast that my medium format scanner can give 130 megapixel images, but since I don't bother doing that, I won't. Remember that X megapixels of data does not necessarily mean X MP of actual image information!
I generally use my Canon 10D because it gives images as good as I need. TBH, my skills just don't warrant going beyond 6MP. When I print at A3 my poor camerawork shows up long before the resolution gives out.
I do, however have some kick-ass lenses. They do make a difference. Sometimes you think Canon DSLRs are incapable of giving sharp images, so you get in the habit of using a set amount of unsharp mask. But whack on a good lens and use proper technique, and you get an image that blows your socks off. By good lens I mean a hideously expensive L-series lens. Or the cheap as chips 50mm f1.8 (it may be flimsy and nasty, but the optics are great.)
BTW, If you never use a solid tripod (or flashguns), don't be foolish enough to think expensive lenses or 16MP cameras are going to improve your pictures (much). Camera shake will soften your images to the extent that the subtle improvements given by that expensive kit will usually be lost.
I recommend reading articles at The Luminous Landscape. The site owner - a professional "fine art" photographer - switched allegiance to digital around the time the Canon D30 came out. His belief then was that the low noise on Canon's images more than compensated for reduced resolution compared to film, which is ultimately limited by grain. And since then digital has got even better, and the rest of the world is starting to catch up with his thinking.