Digital SLR discussion thread...

[rajagra]

You do pay VAT @17.5%

7 Day Shop do the Canon 20D for £949 with VAT paid!
EDIT> Oops! With the 18-55 lens it's £995 inc VAT

Canon do appear to have had a lot of quality problems with the 20D (dust on the sensors etc.)

Really? Is that compared to the 10D, or compared to Nikons? All Canons that use CMOS sensors are inherently more dust-resistant than cameras that use CCDs for the simple reason that CCDs create static (CCD=Charge Coupled Device). (Although the Canon 1DS manages to buck that trend!)
If you mean brand new 20Ds are dusty, that's bad. But after 3 months' use even those dirty 20Ds may have less dust on their sensors than a Nikon D70 that started spotless!
NB Check article and links here.

[rajagra]

well, you can use SLR lenses on dSLRs but - depending on the type - certain functions may not be accessable. I doubt this affects things though as they probably work fine mostly - canon/nikon just want you to get another expensive lens!

Actually it's the other way round. The digital lenses introduced by Canon are cheaper (than identical full-frame lenses would be), as they don't need to focus an image that covers the 35mm area - just the smaller digital sensor. This also means the lenses are smaller and lighter.
But if you want to stick with the older EF lenses - they work just fine! (Possibly with exceptions e.g. tilt-and-shift lenses?)
This is one area where Canon really got their act together back in the 80's - they made the FD mount redundant and created the electronic EF mount from scratch. Meaning it was very future-proof, and still serves its purpose well 20 years later, a lifetime in technological terms. I'm not going to start a Nikon vs Canon debate here, both companies deserve respect, but Canon should be congratulated on their forward thinking, and willingness to take a huge risk. It paid off.

[shiato storm]

Canon do appear to have had a lot of quality problems with the 20D (dust on the sensors etc.)

yes, so it seems. Tom's problems were down to hot pixels or dead ones...I saw some of his test pictures and they were quite revealing. put me off getting a digital camera for some time. Also I know that they are not assembled in a dust free zone...bit pants tbh

[BUFF]

7 Day Shop do the Canon 20D for £949 with VAT paid!
EDIT> Oops! With the 18-55 lens it's £995 inc VAT

Really? Is that compared to the 10D, or compared to Nikons? All Canons that use CMOS sensors are inherently more dust-resistant than cameras that use CCDs for the simple reason that CCDs create static (CCD=Charge Coupled Device). (Although the Canon 1DS manages to buck that trend!)
If you mean brand new 20Ds are dusty, that's bad. But after 3 months' use even those dirty 20Ds may have less dust on their sensors than a Nikon D70 that started spotless!
NB Check article and links here.

7dayshops are grey imports iirc.

& yes it is brand new 20D's with dust on them in the box.
I know of a couple of people who have gone into a shop & gone through 4 or 5 to find one that was acceptable.

[rajagra]

Tom's problems were down to hot pixels or dead ones...I saw some of his test pictures and they were quite revealing. put me off getting a digital camera for some time.

Possibly all DSLRs suffer from hotspots, just as TFTs can have duff pixels. I think they are tested during production, and any bad pixels are flagged. Then when a picture is taken they ignore bad pixels by interpolating from surrounding ones. (Could be wrong, tho')
I wonder if RAW files retain all these defects instead?
I wonder if refurbished cameras just have the extra pixels added to the list?
You can get software that analyzes images, identifies remaining bad pixels, and deals with them. Not an ideal solution by a long way, but an OK workaround if you need it.
I've never noticed hot/dead pixels in my D30 or 10D pictures. I have noticed dust spots, but only when stopped down to F11 or smaller.
Example here.

[shiato storm]

i guess the 10d and d30 were not as accessable as the newer - cheaper -dSLRs so the demand has now gone up dramatically the cost of producing them has had to be reconsidered...and corners inevitabley get cut in the 'cheaper' models...despite them being lots of money! thats the only thought I can come up with that explains why lots more turn up with dust/dead pixels. the fact that there are more of them out there - by law of averages - means that there will be a certain proportion that are faultly...these things just happen, can't have 100% stock working. I always imagine the analogy of the light-bulb maker who knows at least 2% of his bulbs are going to be faulty no matter what. so when dealing with a high precision bit of kit, like a camera there is the greater potential for it to go wrong (or not be quite right would be a better way of looking at it) due to the many bits inside it, just one break of the chain of circuitry or wrong 'command', and cap-ut! doesn't work. canon expect this and is factored into their costs.

[rajagra]

FYI, Fixation can clean a DSLR's mirror box area, the underside of the focus screen and the sensor while you wait for £25.
See here & scroll down.
They are near Vauxhall Bridge, London. I've only used them once, to repair a lens, but they did a good job. As you would expect from people who deal with professional photographers (doesn't include me!)

[Oakey]

Sorry, I meant you don't pay tax or duty on digital cameras bought when abroad. Ie, if you went to NYC and bought a 20D you don't have to declare it. At least that's what it says in this Guardian article I have in front of me.

[rajagra]

Sorry, I meant you don't pay tax or duty on digital cameras bought when abroad. Ie, if you went to NYC and bought a 20D you don't have to declare it. At least that's what it says in this Guardian article I have in front of me.

If you start quoting the Grauniad to Customs, they'll snap on the rubber gloves before you can say "hang on, we haven't been properly introduced!"

[BUFF]

Sorry, I meant you don't pay tax or duty on digital cameras bought when abroad. Ie, if you went to NYC and bought a 20D you don't have to declare it. At least that's what it says in this Guardian article I have in front of me.

You are allowed up to a personal limit of ~£140 iirc before they start hitting you for VAT when bringing stuff back yourself. Mail/online ordering starts at £18 unfortunately.

[Tifosi]

Just post the receipts home and its safe sailing

[shiato storm]

well i got a bike through...no questions asked. i guess cause I'd used it for a good 4-5 months meant it looked used

[Tom]

sorry for not readin it sooner

i got my first from ebuyer w.o realising it was a grey import.....

then my 2nd i got from jessops who got pretty close to ebuyer in fact by the time id payed for next day delivery it was the same price. That had far far too many hot pixels, as did the third....my 4th is far far better with 1 or 2 showing up at 30 seconds, which is what i expected, not 40-50 at like 5 seconds lol.

I wouldnt buy a camera from anywhere else really its not worth the hassle....messes up you can take it back to jessops get a replacement there and then no questions asked, or send it back to ebuyer and wait a couple months, your call really.

Dust on the sensor is not a fault of canons or any other manufacturer as all dSLRs suffer from it as dust gets in when you change lenses. Its a simple process to clean it though with plenty of guides on the net.

[Tifosi]

What price did Jessops offer you?

They are offering me £1065

[BUFF]

Dust on the sensor is not a fault of canons or any other manufacturer as all dSLRs suffer from it as dust gets in when you change lenses. Its a simple process to clean it though with plenty of guides on the net.

It is when they come brand new with dust on the sensors.
It's actually not so simple to clean the sensor & iirc can be a warranty voiding operation.

[rajagra]

It's actually not so simple to clean the sensor & iirc can be a warranty voiding operation.

Agreed. Cleaning inside a DSLR is a lot more dangerous than a film camera.
Scratch the mirror or eyepiece lens and you'll get an annoying distraction when taking pictures, but the pictures on film will be fine.
But get just one scratch on the DSLR sensor (OK, technically it'll be a filter in front of the sensor), and do you think you'll want to use that camera again? The pixel size on a 20D is 6.5 microns.
Seriously, the amount of care needed is several orders of magnitude greater than cleaning lenses. We might think our lens cleaning experience gives us a head start on cleaning sensors, but the reality is that even professional camera technicians have a hard time doing it well.
I'm going to stick with a rubber bulb blower for as long as possible, then use a clean CO2 blower, then maybe
some of these: