Editor quits over 'hoax' pictures

[RVF500]

Blub, I see you are as blinkered and as bigoted as ever. Your posts are more reminicent of a Leninist speech in which you constantly refer to lackeys and stooges etc. As an ex-squaddie I don't support this government at all I'd be only too happy to see the back of them. Your bigotry showing through again. The fact that the photos were fake was unfortunate for your views more like. The tactics of the old regime were copied? Are you real? As for independant thinking. All I see from you is one line and one line only. If it's anything to do with the US or the UK the other side must be right. As for your reference about the place being safe under the old regime. Hmmm...not blinkered. Blind. Blind to anything that does not fit your own narrow outlook

I can't see any point in discussing anything with you.

[Blub2k]

I notice you didn't address the points about the methods being the same. hmmm so where did I say the place was safe under the old regime?

I ask any of you to come up with a reason why the US and UK would be using the same techniques that are specially adapted from the standard stress and torture techniques of hooding and positioning, without having being briefed on technique and collaborating with each other, or maybe that is just a fabrication or something too?

Silence on this one from the one man who might know is quite telling, cant let the side down though can we?

[Zak33]

public notice....Blub's wooden spoon is moving faster than normal he is winding up the soup like a pro chef

Nice work Blub....you are the ultimate debater...cos you're always right

[Blub2k]

I'm not always right, but I refuse to listen to/read propaganda being reiterated as fact.

I'll try again
Challenge:
I ask any of you to come up with a reason why the US and UK would be using the same techniques that are specially adapted from the standard stress and torture techniques of hooding and positioning, without having being briefed on technique and collaborating with each other, or maybe that is just a fabrication or something too?

[Stewart]

but I refuse to listen to/read propaganda being reiterated as fact.

I thought you read the Guardian?

[Zak33]

I'd like to try to debate that Blub....but I actually dont understand what you mean? I dont mean you're wrong, and Im not being a troll....

Can you ask it in a different way, so I understand please. Ta

[Skii]

He's asking how it could be possible that both us and the Yanks are using the same interrogation methods (torture) on the Iraqs

- it must be a sinister plan we both cooked up in our plot to rape murder and torture our way through the middle East.

Personally I favour the 'Sargeant Wilson' approach from Dads Army - along with a cup of tea WITHOUT the sugar and Fondant Fancies with the creamy bit removed.

Pure hell I can tell you

[Blub2k]

Ok Zak will explain it again no problem.

The US get caught torturing people and the techniques that they were using were not the standard torture techniques that are in the handbooks, the ones that RVF has explained in another thread, people get hooded and are then made to stand in tiring positions or uncomfortable positions among other things. The UK used these techniques in Northern Ireland too until a court made them stop.

Thing is the UK and the US are both caught using the same techniques, i.e the nakedness and the panties on the head and pretend oral sex, these techniques have been especially adapted to be particularly offensive to Muslims because of the sex and nakedness.

My question is then how come they are both using the same non-standard stuff if it was not spoken about in briefings etc.
Basically it looks like British and US command sat down and discussed the best torture techniques to use on the arabs, I mean it is hardly likely that they just decided on the same techniques independently of each other, what would you think?

The fact that the techniques used are non-standard yet the same makes me think it is more than just an isolated incident by the British and that it was actually discussed how they would do it thus making it sanctioned and widespread. That ok Zak?

[Skii]

Well that is admittedly a good question Blub - I've missed the link providing evidence that identical methods of humiliation were used - can you paste it for me

Definately curious.

ta.

[Blub2k]

I dont have a link but the descriptions of the techniques are available online, I will look for links to back it up and post back when I have them, it may be today, am away on holidays again tomorrow, it may be Monday before I have something but will get back to it.

[Zak33]

kk...thnks

[Blub2k]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...212197,00.html

So why are they being taught illegal techniques?
It is illegal to torture so why are they being taught it if they are not supposed to use it?
Was not exactly as I had originally thought with this one but not far off.

[Skii]

Nasty stuff indeed.

However I don't see any reference there to sharing tecnniques that specifically target Muslim and Arabic culture, the methods described in that article refer to degrading prisoners through a number of means, sexually and non sexually,using every low down dirty sordid trick in the book, granted, but nothing that specifically targets the muslim faith.

The methods described are nothing new, they are used on every special forces recruit in their vigorous selection tests, whether they be US, UK, Israeli, German. Are they secret? Possibly some methods are, but sexual humiliation certainly isn't, and TV, Film and book have gone into quite lengthy detail as to some of the stuff that is performed on a POW, not to mention less recent conflicts including Vietnam.

Special forces troops from all over the world are often trained together, some of them retire and write quite lengthy books on their experiences, often in so much detail that their governments hit the panic button. Should we be surprised and shocked that ordinary soldiers/civilians and thugs from different countries use similar techniques of torture and interrogation ? Not me.

Is it right or wrong ? Plainly wrong when soldiers and prison guards are abusing those techniques, no question. Plainly wrong if that these techniqes are abused, but I don't see a grand conspiracy to target muslims and arabs, only the actions of irresponsible minorities that I have no doubt will be investigated at either end.

[Blub2k]

I was unable to find that specific article Skii but I have seen it somewhere and will dig it out if I find it, we have a new product release here and I am off my feet at the moment.
I dont accept that it is not coordinated it is not mavericks etc etc, it happens in war even though it is illegal but it should not and people should be brought to book for it, I dont think this will happen in any real way apart from scapegoating a few minions.

[Blub2k]

http://prague.tv/forum/viewpost.php?id=2019

http://www.news-record.com/news/opin...ers_060904.htm

The original articles seem to have disappeared but there are references at the two links above.

[Skii]

Possibly you're right that scapegoats or excuses will be found, certainly if any British soldiers are guilty of abusing these techniques on prisoners, then it is a crime, no doubt, and someone needs to be made accountale and justice needs to be observed.

Point is however these techniques are not taught for the sake of sheer sadism, they are specifically designed for the extraction of information from a Prisoner of War, its horrible stuff, of this there is no doubt, but done in order to extract life or death information from a subject, wether that be the location of othr enemy troops. The abuse of these methods on prisoners just for the sake of sadism is another thing altogether. The first could be argued as an extreme necessity, the second is clearly unacceptable, and in my opinion you are quite right to highlight and question those instances.